John Hawkins and “return on connection”

John Hawkins (aka VegasGeek) has been around WordPress long enough to understand the part nobody can put into a spreadsheet: that the real value of community is almost never immediate. We talk about the moment a simple plugin-development talk at a WordCamp helped flip my own identity from “designer” to “developer, actually,” and how John thinks about teaching as a way to light sparks — not prove expertise.

We also dig into the long game: WordCamp “ROI” that shows up years later, what it felt like to disappear during the Zoom-fatigue era, and why John now designs his agency work around stability — retainers, maintenance, and recurring relationships — instead of living and dying by the next lead. Listen to the full episode to hear the stories, the hard-earned lessons, and the kind of practical honesty you only get from someone who’s done this for a long time.