WEBVTT

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Welcome to Community & Code,

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the podcast about the

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people behind the commits.

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I'm here today with Raquel,

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a longtime WordPress community member,

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leader of the WordPress Phoenix community,

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founder, owner of Wonderland Curious.

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Raquel's been in the

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community for a long time.

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But if you aren't in the

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WordPress community or you

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don't know Raquel and you

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haven't seen her around, Raquel,

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welcome to the show.

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And why don't you introduce yourself?

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Thank you.

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Yep, I'm Raquel.

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And I, gosh,

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I started in WordPress in twenty ten.

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I used to run an agency,

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kind of became a WooCommerce agency.

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And then I exited the agency

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in like twenty eighteen and

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then got hired with Elegant

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Themes for six years.

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And then here I am now

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running my own business.

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But through all of that, I've been like a

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big lover of WordPress and the community.

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And honestly,

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the idea to democratize

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publishing with this open source project.

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So yeah,

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that's everything all summarized

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into a sentence.

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Yeah.

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The whole thing.

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I mean, you talked about it,

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but like dig into a little

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bit about like what drew

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you specifically to WordPress?

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Did you look at other things

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or were you looking at

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other things before or was

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it just like you found the

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thing and then it sort of just clicked?

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You know what?

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This is probably going to be

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the most different answer

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you could ever have to that question.

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And I would love to find out

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if anyone else has the same answer.

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Because I did not come into

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WordPress as the implementer, designer,

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even coder.

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I came in as...

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the partner in operations

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for the business I started

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with my ex-partner.

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So I didn't actually choose WordPress.

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In a way,

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you could say WordPress chose me.

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There you go.

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But I do remember, you know,

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a lot of stuff in the two

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thousands was built with flash, you know,

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and there was like a lot of

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that and just like HTML custom and

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And yeah, Dreamweaver and all that.

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And I just remember my

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ex-partner at the time was like,

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there's this new thing called WordPress.

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I really want to get into it.

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And so that was honestly how

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I got into it was he got

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into it and then I followed suit.

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So I'm very curious if

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anyone else ever has a very

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similar answer.

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I mean,

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I think that that's not super uncommon.

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I think that, yeah, I mean,

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I think that for a lot of people,

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you just, I mean,

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certainly a lot of my

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clients when I was

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freelancing got WordPress

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because that was the thing

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that I was building with

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and that was the thing that

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I was advocating for.

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um talk about your uh your

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company wonderland curious

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uh I know that you uh under

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the guise perhaps of of

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wonderland curious um uh

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organized press conf last

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year and we'll talk about

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that a little bit later um

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but yeah what is what is

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wonderland curious and what

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is it that you do these days

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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I'm going to try to not talk your ear off.

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You can talk my ear off.

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We've got a long time.

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I love talking.

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So it was, I mean, honestly,

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it's a passion project

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that's been years in the making.

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And that came about at the

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perfect time in my life

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when the stars and planets aligned.

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I mean, that's the full truth.

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I've had it inside of me for a long time,

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but I didn't know it was there.

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And then when I did know it was there,

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I made a conscious choice

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to choose my kids before that.

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So I would say the seed was

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this idea to plan group travel for kids.

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For fun.

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So just this idea that you

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take twenty randos anywhere

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around the world and you

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unplug and you just hang out together.

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So the feels are kind of

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like adult summer camp or

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like when you went to

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summer camp as a kid and

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you just are forever bonded

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to the people you're with.

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And it's an experience that

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resets and rejuvenates and

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that is a really hard model

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to monetize just in itself.

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And so while I was still

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being a full-time mom, um,

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I had kids when I was very young.

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So now they're all adults.

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And when my baby graduated high school,

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it was right around the time when,

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when the stars were

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aligning to bring back press nomics,

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which is what I, I now I call it, um,

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press comp.

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And, um,

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all of it just made sense to

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bring it together.

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So I already knew I was

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gonna fight hard to bring

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what was Pressonomics back.

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And then my last child,

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my daughter graduated from

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high school and all of a

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sudden I had an open

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calendar and I have not had

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an open calendar

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I mean, God knows how long,

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because I was always a very

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involved mom and was

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convinced and still am that

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your children want your

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time more than anything else,

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more than any other

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resource you would give them.

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So then I, over that summer,

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which would have been now two years ago,

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no, a year ago, sorry, yeah,

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a year ago last summer,

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just strategized and came up with

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the plan,

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which was to like start my own company.

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And I LLC'd a year ago, August.

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And that company is Wonderland Curious.

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And under that company would be events.

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And so for hire,

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I am for hire for anyone's events,

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particularly tech events,

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whether big or small.

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Then to bring under that press comp,

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which is my event,

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but I still can be hired to

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contract for other events.

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And then to bring that

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travel aspect to it as well.

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So to still plan group travel,

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which I'm working on.

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I haven't released one yet.

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And so those are the two

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essential pillars to my business.

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And I do love...

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I love the Alice character

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from Lewis Carroll.

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And I very much identify with her.

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Just like rough and tumble,

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but very girly.

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And as a child, I was very much that way.

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Just like climbing trees in

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my dresses and getting

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dirty and getting into trouble.

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Very curious and following my curiosity,

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which...

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feels like at times you're

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getting into trouble,

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but actually you learn and grow so much,

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which is ultimately the story of Alice.

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And,

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and so I kind of wanted that to be

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part of my theme, but subtly.

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So yes, the name does show some of it,

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but my tagline is curiouser

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events and curiouser travel.

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So yeah, that's the business.

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And here I am finally doing

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what I've been wanting to

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do for so long and made it happen.

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Yeah.

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I will admit that when I

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first heard the name,

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I definitely got like summer,

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like outdoor concert vibes, like,

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you know, like, you know,

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like outdoor festival.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Like, I definitely like it.

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It felt like it felt like

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like a weekend in like

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Joshua Tree or something.

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Yeah.

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And that is, honestly,

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I don't mind that because

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it is sort of whimsical.

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That was very much Lewis Carroll,

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a little psychedelic, you know, you know,

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but also,

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there's room for for changing

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and modifying and

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interpreting differently.

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So yeah.

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I love the name and the

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story behind the name too.

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My partner and I have an

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Etsy shop for we do like

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tie dye stuff like over the

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summer when we have time

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and we put it up on Etsy.

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And the name of our shop is

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Possible Octopus.

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And the reason for the name,

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besides being kind of a silly name,

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is because Erin, my partner,

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really likes going to the

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beach and likes going tide

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pooling and stuff.

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and uh has said a couple

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times uh well sort of like

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a mantra is like whenever

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you go to the beast there's

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always a possible octopus

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there's probably one out

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there you just don't see it

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um so the I so the idea of

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like possible octopus was

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uh was just uh yeah is a

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cute like has nothing to do

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with tie-dye but like is

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like you know a kind of

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like whimsical kind of name um I love it

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Yeah.

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I will also, so full disclosure,

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the whole reason this podcast exists,

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and we'll talk about

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PressConf in a second,

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is in part a product of

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PressConf last year.

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um there's basically two

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inception points uh that um

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that were sort of the key

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sort of points that made

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this podcast be I had been

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thinking about getting

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doing a podcast again uh

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for a while and I didn't

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really have like I wanted

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to do it and I knew I

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wanted to just talk to

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people and I knew I could

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like use my network and and

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like go and reach out into

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different groups and and uh

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and grab people and

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And I just wanted to have conversations,

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but I didn't know what the

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topic was going to be.

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And I didn't want to just

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have a tech podcast because

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that's boring.

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I don't want to talk about

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tech all the time.

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And like there's enough tech podcasts.

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There's not a lot that I can

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really do there that would

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be super innovative or interesting.

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But when I went to DrupalCon

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for the first time last year,

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there was a sticker,

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and I posted about it on

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social and whatever, that says,

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and I have it on my water bottle,

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come for the code,

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stay for the community.

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And that resonated with me because

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that is why I've been in the

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WordPress community for twenty odd years.

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And I think that that's

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probably why you've been in

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the WordPress community for

00:10:27.273 --> 00:10:28.193
the same amount of time, right?

00:10:29.455 --> 00:10:32.037
And so to see this at an event,

00:10:32.158 --> 00:10:33.158
like expressing that

00:10:33.217 --> 00:10:36.020
sentiment at an event for a

00:10:36.201 --> 00:10:37.522
CMS that I have not been a

00:10:37.581 --> 00:10:39.384
part of was really interesting.

00:10:39.783 --> 00:10:41.445
And it sort of lent

00:10:42.562 --> 00:10:43.822
lent itself to this theme

00:10:43.842 --> 00:10:44.884
that I sort of had,

00:10:45.445 --> 00:10:46.306
this sense that I had over

00:10:46.326 --> 00:10:47.307
the course of the week,

00:10:47.687 --> 00:10:49.229
that we're more similar

00:10:49.928 --> 00:10:50.870
with these other developer

00:10:50.889 --> 00:10:52.010
communities than we are different.

00:10:52.032 --> 00:10:53.552
And that sort of like fed

00:10:53.613 --> 00:10:56.235
into this seed for this idea.

00:10:56.495 --> 00:10:57.856
But it wasn't until PressConf,

00:10:57.876 --> 00:10:59.739
which was literally a month later,

00:11:00.899 --> 00:11:02.861
that it really was hammered home.

00:11:03.042 --> 00:11:05.384
Because PressConf, which is the

00:11:06.164 --> 00:11:08.366
successor to Pressnomics is

00:11:08.626 --> 00:11:11.690
not your typical event.

00:11:12.409 --> 00:11:13.311
I'll let you actually

00:11:13.350 --> 00:11:15.753
describe maybe perhaps what

00:11:15.873 --> 00:11:17.114
is different about Pressconf,

00:11:17.134 --> 00:11:18.355
what's unique about Pressconf.

00:11:19.556 --> 00:11:20.017
Yeah.

00:11:21.618 --> 00:11:24.480
Um, several key points and, uh,

00:11:25.341 --> 00:11:26.442
I'm probably be all over

00:11:26.482 --> 00:11:28.124
the place with where I hit them.

00:11:28.804 --> 00:11:32.187
Uh, but it is purposely small.

00:11:32.488 --> 00:11:33.850
Uh,

00:11:33.889 --> 00:11:36.072
so I guess in comparison to a flagship

00:11:36.111 --> 00:11:36.471
event, uh,

00:11:37.732 --> 00:11:39.235
so it's not thousands of people,

00:11:39.315 --> 00:11:40.155
it's literally a couple

00:11:40.196 --> 00:11:43.298
hundred people and that's

00:11:43.318 --> 00:11:44.139
to keep it intimate.

00:11:45.039 --> 00:11:47.062
It is purposely one track.

00:11:48.884 --> 00:11:49.884
And with that one track,

00:11:50.024 --> 00:11:51.767
there are no recordings at all.

00:11:52.226 --> 00:11:54.889
And that is very intentional

00:11:55.269 --> 00:11:58.653
because we really want each

00:11:58.692 --> 00:12:00.554
and every talk to come with it,

00:12:00.794 --> 00:12:01.917
to sort of drop the mic.

00:12:02.336 --> 00:12:02.636
And

00:12:03.538 --> 00:12:06.220
to feel safe as the speaker

00:12:06.559 --> 00:12:10.322
to let it out and not have

00:12:10.402 --> 00:12:12.543
fear that things might get

00:12:12.583 --> 00:12:14.424
taken out of context and

00:12:15.044 --> 00:12:17.046
you know and and also just

00:12:18.226 --> 00:12:20.548
just not have any fear that

00:12:20.589 --> 00:12:22.289
anything that will ever be

00:12:22.350 --> 00:12:23.450
recorded and used against

00:12:23.490 --> 00:12:25.010
them in the future now of

00:12:25.030 --> 00:12:26.032
course that's not to say

00:12:26.052 --> 00:12:28.714
that we now invite characters that

00:12:30.005 --> 00:12:31.607
that would be someone who

00:12:31.648 --> 00:12:32.528
would take advantage of

00:12:32.568 --> 00:12:34.149
that or be someone who who

00:12:34.191 --> 00:12:35.010
you would just question

00:12:35.091 --> 00:12:36.753
okay that was not cool you

00:12:36.793 --> 00:12:37.913
know so there there's

00:12:37.953 --> 00:12:39.115
definitely a balance there

00:12:39.316 --> 00:12:40.496
and speakers are chosen

00:12:40.537 --> 00:12:43.220
based on trust so it's like

00:12:43.460 --> 00:12:44.922
we want that we really want

00:12:44.942 --> 00:12:46.243
that vulnerability and

00:12:46.283 --> 00:12:48.245
privacy from the talks so

00:12:48.264 --> 00:12:49.346
then therefore we're very

00:12:49.385 --> 00:12:50.746
careful about who we choose

00:12:51.168 --> 00:12:53.029
at the same time we're also we're

00:12:53.572 --> 00:12:55.432
open to giving people chances.

00:12:55.953 --> 00:12:57.455
So in that in itself is

00:12:57.514 --> 00:13:01.138
pretty different from other, uh,

00:13:01.158 --> 00:13:03.599
I would say WordCamp or just conferences.

00:13:04.259 --> 00:13:07.701
Uh, I do love that asterisk that, you know,

00:13:07.721 --> 00:13:09.464
WordCamps very much give

00:13:09.504 --> 00:13:12.025
like first timers and all of that where,

00:13:12.686 --> 00:13:13.287
where me being

00:13:14.126 --> 00:13:15.528
and also press comp very

00:13:15.568 --> 00:13:16.691
much believes that people

00:13:16.730 --> 00:13:17.871
can change and get better

00:13:18.472 --> 00:13:20.414
grow together and that's a

00:13:20.455 --> 00:13:22.398
real tough one I think for

00:13:22.437 --> 00:13:25.121
people that to wrestle with

00:13:25.182 --> 00:13:26.764
because that means you're

00:13:26.783 --> 00:13:27.965
giving people second

00:13:27.985 --> 00:13:29.346
chances who maybe have

00:13:30.128 --> 00:13:33.110
have not been the best in the past.

00:13:33.711 --> 00:13:35.614
And that is one of my values.

00:13:36.054 --> 00:13:37.115
And I,

00:13:37.155 --> 00:13:38.216
that is something that is different

00:13:38.236 --> 00:13:40.259
about press comp is that

00:13:41.019 --> 00:13:41.880
everybody's invited.

00:13:42.701 --> 00:13:44.724
We don't exclude anybody for

00:13:44.764 --> 00:13:45.304
the most part.

00:13:45.365 --> 00:13:45.565
I mean,

00:13:46.672 --> 00:13:47.293
hasn't happened,

00:13:47.332 --> 00:13:47.993
but if something were to

00:13:48.033 --> 00:13:49.375
happen where it's just like, okay,

00:13:49.394 --> 00:13:50.414
you just crossed a major

00:13:50.556 --> 00:13:52.596
human level line and okay,

00:13:52.638 --> 00:13:53.337
now you're out.

00:13:53.418 --> 00:13:54.219
It's the same reason why

00:13:54.278 --> 00:13:55.120
people would lose their

00:13:55.139 --> 00:13:56.721
rights in life if they get

00:13:56.740 --> 00:13:57.961
a felony or something like that.

00:13:58.363 --> 00:13:59.163
But otherwise,

00:13:59.663 --> 00:14:01.205
press comp really believes

00:14:01.505 --> 00:14:02.647
in the power of change.

00:14:03.187 --> 00:14:04.769
And that only happens if we

00:14:04.808 --> 00:14:06.250
want to individually.

00:14:06.850 --> 00:14:07.870
I can't change somebody

00:14:08.511 --> 00:14:11.254
but I can change myself because I want to.

00:14:11.914 --> 00:14:13.696
And every bit of part of

00:14:13.735 --> 00:14:16.018
press comp creates a space

00:14:16.317 --> 00:14:17.879
where change can happen.

00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:19.519
At least we cultivate it.

00:14:20.605 --> 00:14:24.866
And the other part that's different is, um,

00:14:24.907 --> 00:14:25.748
we pretty much stay

00:14:25.788 --> 00:14:28.327
together the whole time, you know,

00:14:28.368 --> 00:14:29.148
start to finish.

00:14:29.869 --> 00:14:30.469
Uh,

00:14:30.489 --> 00:14:32.028
we're pretty much everybody's at the

00:14:32.068 --> 00:14:34.289
resort together, take breaks together.

00:14:35.149 --> 00:14:37.490
Uh, lunch is a choose your own adventure,

00:14:37.711 --> 00:14:38.951
but everything's all right.

00:14:38.990 --> 00:14:40.111
They're very walkable.

00:14:40.951 --> 00:14:41.292
And then.

00:14:42.783 --> 00:14:45.187
every evening, you know, there,

00:14:45.226 --> 00:14:46.688
there's the opportunity

00:14:46.729 --> 00:14:47.750
that you're still together

00:14:47.850 --> 00:14:50.053
is so very high because

00:14:50.073 --> 00:14:51.876
we're all in the same spot.

00:14:52.158 --> 00:14:53.438
And so we're all hanging on

00:14:53.458 --> 00:14:55.022
the hot tub together or,

00:14:55.602 --> 00:14:57.345
or walk into a restaurant together.

00:14:57.485 --> 00:14:57.544
Yep.

00:14:58.005 --> 00:15:01.407
And then the also it's not crazy different,

00:15:01.466 --> 00:15:02.888
but in our space, I think it is,

00:15:03.008 --> 00:15:04.307
is the last day is a fun

00:15:04.327 --> 00:15:06.109
day is a field trip day

00:15:06.609 --> 00:15:09.370
where we give a couple of options,

00:15:09.590 --> 00:15:10.191
always golf.

00:15:10.230 --> 00:15:10.910
Cause we've got the golf

00:15:10.951 --> 00:15:12.591
bros and they'll lose their minds.

00:15:12.650 --> 00:15:13.572
They don't get their golf.

00:15:13.851 --> 00:15:16.312
And I say that with love, but yeah.

00:15:17.072 --> 00:15:18.475
And then this last year we did go-karts,

00:15:18.514 --> 00:15:19.495
which was a huge hit.

00:15:19.696 --> 00:15:22.238
So that is a day where we

00:15:22.258 --> 00:15:23.679
take everything that we've

00:15:23.720 --> 00:15:25.682
been stewing on and

00:15:25.701 --> 00:15:26.582
wrestling with over the

00:15:26.623 --> 00:15:27.923
past two days and just let

00:15:27.964 --> 00:15:30.005
it sit and have fun together.

00:15:30.667 --> 00:15:32.609
Because there's science

00:15:32.649 --> 00:15:38.695
behind when you kind of end some real –

00:15:38.073 --> 00:15:39.495
like heavy hitting time

00:15:39.796 --> 00:15:41.217
emotionally and you just

00:15:41.258 --> 00:15:42.219
kind of let go and not

00:15:42.298 --> 00:15:43.721
think it actually helps

00:15:43.941 --> 00:15:45.842
your brain process.

00:15:46.303 --> 00:15:47.625
And it's the same idea of

00:15:47.644 --> 00:15:48.525
when you're in the shower

00:15:48.586 --> 00:15:49.447
and all of a sudden all

00:15:49.466 --> 00:15:51.429
these ideas come flooding, you know,

00:15:51.769 --> 00:15:53.471
or for me, it would be like, even like,

00:15:53.731 --> 00:15:55.654
and maybe you too, like, like yoga or,

00:15:56.134 --> 00:15:57.094
or even like dancing,

00:15:57.114 --> 00:15:58.053
because I love to dance.

00:15:58.934 --> 00:16:00.894
And then you're like, remember that later.

00:16:00.914 --> 00:16:02.914
And then you don't.

00:16:03.715 --> 00:16:05.535
And so that's the idea of that fourth day,

00:16:06.035 --> 00:16:08.895
is to just be with each other still.

00:16:09.456 --> 00:16:10.616
Because now when you are

00:16:10.657 --> 00:16:12.256
together and an idea comes,

00:16:12.297 --> 00:16:13.677
you could just be like, bro.

00:16:15.158 --> 00:16:16.857
And by bro, I mean that androgynously.

00:16:16.898 --> 00:16:17.998
Let me be very clear.

00:16:18.038 --> 00:16:20.178
Because I use that term very

00:16:20.239 --> 00:16:20.979
androgynously.

00:16:22.119 --> 00:16:22.580
But, you know,

00:16:22.620 --> 00:16:23.980
like I just got this idea

00:16:24.302 --> 00:16:26.183
and like and maybe you're both busy,

00:16:26.224 --> 00:16:27.524
but you're like you say it

00:16:27.585 --> 00:16:29.027
and now both of you have it.

00:16:29.067 --> 00:16:31.068
So then that not only do you

00:16:31.109 --> 00:16:31.870
have a higher chance of

00:16:31.909 --> 00:16:33.631
remembering what you just thought of,

00:16:33.851 --> 00:16:35.653
but now you said it to someone else.

00:16:35.794 --> 00:16:36.355
Right, right.

00:16:37.135 --> 00:16:39.417
those are pretty yeah the

00:16:39.476 --> 00:16:41.378
biggest differences um

00:16:41.398 --> 00:16:42.499
there's also just because

00:16:42.619 --> 00:16:44.620
it's uh there's only one

00:16:44.659 --> 00:16:46.900
track over two days of of

00:16:46.941 --> 00:16:48.922
conference days uh there's

00:16:48.981 --> 00:16:51.062
not a lot of sessions so we

00:16:51.102 --> 00:16:51.863
don't have a ton of

00:16:51.883 --> 00:16:54.465
speakers uh and I think

00:16:54.485 --> 00:16:55.085
those are the biggest

00:16:55.105 --> 00:16:56.605
differences and maybe I

00:16:56.666 --> 00:16:57.985
missed something you if you

00:16:58.025 --> 00:16:59.246
remember something you could definitely

00:17:00.561 --> 00:17:02.182
I just wanted to say that, like, you know,

00:17:02.361 --> 00:17:04.264
that that intentionality

00:17:04.604 --> 00:17:08.606
and that like the conscious

00:17:08.626 --> 00:17:10.208
decision to not record and

00:17:10.328 --> 00:17:11.629
what that means in terms of

00:17:11.669 --> 00:17:13.892
the types of talks that are

00:17:14.152 --> 00:17:16.634
given at press conferences, a any.

00:17:17.187 --> 00:17:20.207
insert your own conference here, uh,

00:17:20.268 --> 00:17:23.648
was another half of like

00:17:24.169 --> 00:17:27.148
what formulated into my brain about, um,

00:17:27.209 --> 00:17:27.950
about this show,

00:17:28.329 --> 00:17:30.309
which was that I also

00:17:30.690 --> 00:17:32.770
wanted to have real conversations.

00:17:32.790 --> 00:17:34.790
Like that was the thing that clicked, uh,

00:17:34.871 --> 00:17:36.672
was there is the, you know,

00:17:36.692 --> 00:17:37.471
the come for the code,

00:17:37.511 --> 00:17:38.332
stay for the community.

00:17:38.711 --> 00:17:39.792
That was a big part of it.

00:17:40.093 --> 00:17:40.833
And then the thing that

00:17:40.853 --> 00:17:43.272
clicked was real conversations,

00:17:43.353 --> 00:17:43.874
real people.

00:17:44.013 --> 00:17:44.253
Yes.

00:17:44.294 --> 00:17:45.594
We all share this, like.

00:17:46.888 --> 00:17:48.009
We're in the same communities,

00:17:48.049 --> 00:17:49.369
we're doing tech, whatever,

00:17:49.450 --> 00:17:50.691
but we're also people.

00:17:50.851 --> 00:17:53.612
And the people are far more

00:17:53.672 --> 00:17:56.073
interesting than, I think,

00:17:56.272 --> 00:17:57.472
the tech that we make and

00:17:57.512 --> 00:17:58.253
that we produce.

00:17:58.493 --> 00:18:02.115
And I'm much more happy to

00:18:02.134 --> 00:18:03.736
have conversations with humans

00:18:04.135 --> 00:18:05.596
than to just talk about the

00:18:05.636 --> 00:18:06.457
stuff that you're building.

00:18:06.517 --> 00:18:07.337
The stuff you're building is

00:18:07.377 --> 00:18:08.958
fine and cool and fun.

00:18:09.838 --> 00:18:12.220
And like, you know,

00:18:12.380 --> 00:18:14.560
that's all wonderful and interesting.

00:18:14.621 --> 00:18:15.582
But there's also like,

00:18:15.622 --> 00:18:16.561
there's other shows for that.

00:18:17.402 --> 00:18:18.143
There's other people you can

00:18:18.182 --> 00:18:19.923
talk about the tech and get

00:18:19.983 --> 00:18:21.544
super deep into like, you know,

00:18:21.825 --> 00:18:23.005
the layers of your

00:18:23.125 --> 00:18:24.905
infrastructural stack and whatever.

00:18:24.945 --> 00:18:26.846
And like, that's cool.

00:18:27.027 --> 00:18:27.487
But like,

00:18:28.428 --> 00:18:30.749
what made you the person that you

00:18:30.929 --> 00:18:32.730
are to build the product that you build?

00:18:34.615 --> 00:18:35.215
Are you asking?

00:18:35.797 --> 00:18:39.239
No, I mean, I mean, I can, um, no,

00:18:39.259 --> 00:18:40.719
but that was, that's just sort of like,

00:18:40.980 --> 00:18:42.240
uh, your inspiration.

00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:43.540
Yeah.

00:18:43.861 --> 00:18:44.520
Yeah, exactly.

00:18:44.761 --> 00:18:46.061
Yeah.

00:18:46.122 --> 00:18:47.462
Yeah.

00:18:47.502 --> 00:18:50.724
So, uh, yeah, you've been, um,

00:18:50.744 --> 00:18:54.386
tell us about, so, uh, announced recently,

00:18:54.926 --> 00:18:55.027
uh,

00:18:55.067 --> 00:18:56.528
we can get into this and it's

00:18:56.788 --> 00:18:57.709
moderately spicy.

00:18:57.888 --> 00:18:58.648
Maybe I feel like I know

00:18:58.669 --> 00:18:59.230
where you're going.

00:18:59.250 --> 00:18:59.490
Yeah.

00:19:03.425 --> 00:19:05.147
It was recently announced at

00:19:05.788 --> 00:19:07.308
WordCamp US a couple weeks

00:19:07.348 --> 00:19:10.892
ago that the next WordCamp

00:19:10.991 --> 00:19:12.854
US will be in Phoenix in

00:19:12.874 --> 00:19:15.095
the middle of August, which is awesome.

00:19:17.156 --> 00:19:18.317
I live in Salt Lake City.

00:19:18.557 --> 00:19:19.638
I have a pretty good idea of

00:19:19.699 --> 00:19:21.861
what Phoenix is like in August.

00:19:22.381 --> 00:19:22.882
Sure.

00:19:26.223 --> 00:19:28.365
and I wanted to actually

00:19:28.885 --> 00:19:30.886
focus more less about the

00:19:31.067 --> 00:19:32.548
the announcement of it

00:19:32.587 --> 00:19:35.150
being in phoenix uh because

00:19:35.170 --> 00:19:36.230
there's there's drama and

00:19:36.250 --> 00:19:37.090
we can talk about the drama

00:19:37.111 --> 00:19:38.330
around that too but also

00:19:38.412 --> 00:19:40.272
but more importantly what I

00:19:40.313 --> 00:19:43.934
think um is valuable to

00:19:44.275 --> 00:19:46.135
share here for our purposes

00:19:46.336 --> 00:19:50.239
is like you said a lot after that about

00:19:50.858 --> 00:19:52.338
the phoenix wordpress

00:19:52.358 --> 00:19:53.759
community and what makes it

00:19:53.819 --> 00:19:57.580
special and um like post

00:19:57.621 --> 00:19:59.642
covid I know a lot of local

00:19:59.701 --> 00:20:00.862
wordpress communities kind

00:20:00.922 --> 00:20:04.323
of my my own in uh as as

00:20:04.363 --> 00:20:06.743
well um kind of fell off

00:20:07.084 --> 00:20:09.483
the map um but it feels

00:20:09.544 --> 00:20:11.305
like you still have

00:20:11.484 --> 00:20:12.305
something going on in

00:20:12.345 --> 00:20:14.746
phoenix um to talk about

00:20:15.165 --> 00:20:16.786
what makes the phoenix

00:20:17.006 --> 00:20:18.346
wordpress community

00:20:19.126 --> 00:20:21.088
work and what makes it

00:20:21.148 --> 00:20:23.349
special and why you've kind

00:20:23.390 --> 00:20:26.472
of stuck it out for so long?

00:20:26.553 --> 00:20:26.952
Yeah.

00:20:29.115 --> 00:20:30.695
I think there's a few things

00:20:31.096 --> 00:20:33.938
that would explain why and how.

00:20:34.699 --> 00:20:37.101
And really,

00:20:37.701 --> 00:20:38.922
I think ultimately it could be

00:20:38.981 --> 00:20:41.124
summed up by saying we are

00:20:41.284 --> 00:20:43.786
genuinely friends, the leadership team.

00:20:44.806 --> 00:20:46.428
And that I don't think...

00:20:47.611 --> 00:20:49.191
happened on purpose like we

00:20:49.211 --> 00:20:50.791
weren't like necessarily

00:20:50.852 --> 00:20:52.771
like will you be my friend

00:20:52.832 --> 00:20:54.272
you know like back and you

00:20:54.292 --> 00:20:55.093
know when we're children

00:20:55.272 --> 00:20:57.032
you know but it just worked

00:20:57.212 --> 00:20:59.894
out that way and I think

00:21:00.013 --> 00:21:03.095
incidentally we have some

00:21:03.154 --> 00:21:05.414
passionate people on the

00:21:05.434 --> 00:21:07.736
leadership team and when

00:21:07.756 --> 00:21:09.175
you got passionate

00:21:10.256 --> 00:21:12.779
and kind personalities magic

00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:14.182
happens because you could

00:21:14.201 --> 00:21:15.542
also have passionate and

00:21:15.963 --> 00:21:17.046
not kind and then you have

00:21:17.125 --> 00:21:20.589
a dictator you know like um

00:21:20.770 --> 00:21:23.535
and throughout the years uh

00:21:23.555 --> 00:21:25.156
when you have that all

00:21:25.196 --> 00:21:26.979
ready to start it attracts

00:21:27.619 --> 00:21:29.481
you know, and it attracts others.

00:21:30.142 --> 00:21:31.762
So Carol Stambaugh,

00:21:31.943 --> 00:21:33.565
who's the one who got up

00:21:33.605 --> 00:21:35.226
and said what she said,

00:21:35.246 --> 00:21:36.287
the very last question of

00:21:36.326 --> 00:21:38.308
the keynote and Q&A.

00:21:38.588 --> 00:21:41.490
And I mean, that was happening because her,

00:21:41.530 --> 00:21:42.832
myself and like two others

00:21:42.872 --> 00:21:44.794
on the Phoenix team were

00:21:44.814 --> 00:21:46.734
like texting nonstop, you know,

00:21:46.755 --> 00:21:47.695
when the announcement happened.

00:21:48.056 --> 00:21:49.538
And then and I'm like, Carol,

00:21:49.557 --> 00:21:50.117
get up there.

00:21:51.679 --> 00:21:51.838
And

00:21:52.660 --> 00:21:53.720
And I'm like, get up there.

00:21:54.580 --> 00:21:56.721
And the reason why is like

00:21:56.760 --> 00:21:57.642
it needed to be her.

00:21:57.862 --> 00:21:59.082
She's the one who started

00:21:59.142 --> 00:22:00.602
the meetup in twenty eleven.

00:22:00.762 --> 00:22:01.762
But she mentioned that.

00:22:02.542 --> 00:22:05.683
And Carol is we've joked

00:22:05.703 --> 00:22:07.144
that she's like Mama WordPress,

00:22:07.384 --> 00:22:11.306
but she is just I mean, her

00:22:12.405 --> 00:22:13.686
She's a bundle of love.

00:22:14.126 --> 00:22:16.328
And there's just something

00:22:16.388 --> 00:22:18.570
about her that makes everybody better.

00:22:18.730 --> 00:22:19.731
And I'm probably going to start crying.

00:22:20.711 --> 00:22:22.614
And she's become like a big sister,

00:22:22.653 --> 00:22:23.794
like a mentor to me.

00:22:24.154 --> 00:22:27.076
And so I got in to, honestly,

00:22:27.376 --> 00:22:29.117
I was part of the global

00:22:29.398 --> 00:22:30.880
community before I even got

00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:32.461
involved in the Phoenix community.

00:22:32.901 --> 00:22:34.021
Just because when I first

00:22:34.261 --> 00:22:36.223
got involved in WordPress,

00:22:36.243 --> 00:22:37.545
it was through WordCamps and traveling.

00:22:38.285 --> 00:22:40.987
And then I'm like, oh, but we at the time,

00:22:41.227 --> 00:22:42.208
WordCamp Phoenix was the

00:22:42.307 --> 00:22:44.249
biggest local WordCamp in

00:22:44.269 --> 00:22:45.710
the world at the time.

00:22:45.891 --> 00:22:47.991
And and so I'm like, well,

00:22:48.011 --> 00:22:48.972
we got a really cool space

00:22:49.032 --> 00:22:50.253
and I need to be involved.

00:22:50.334 --> 00:22:52.675
And that was like my torch

00:22:52.915 --> 00:22:54.636
as like the owner of my old

00:22:54.737 --> 00:22:56.979
agency for I was like, well,

00:22:56.999 --> 00:22:58.339
I'm going to be like facing

00:22:58.359 --> 00:23:00.941
community big time of our agency.

00:23:01.342 --> 00:23:02.563
And so I just got involved.

00:23:03.143 --> 00:23:04.605
And it's so easy to work with her.

00:23:05.144 --> 00:23:06.385
It's just so easy.

00:23:06.606 --> 00:23:08.107
And then so then it just

00:23:08.127 --> 00:23:09.269
starts to snowball.

00:23:09.509 --> 00:23:09.809
Right.

00:23:09.930 --> 00:23:12.412
And then even I remember the

00:23:12.451 --> 00:23:13.232
last time where Camp

00:23:13.252 --> 00:23:15.275
Phoenix was ginormous was

00:23:15.315 --> 00:23:16.096
twenty fourteen.

00:23:16.236 --> 00:23:18.218
And then the leader stepped

00:23:18.238 --> 00:23:19.779
down and they needed a new

00:23:19.859 --> 00:23:20.760
leader and they came up to

00:23:20.800 --> 00:23:22.061
me and they're like, would you do it?

00:23:22.102 --> 00:23:24.084
And I felt like a baby girl, you know,

00:23:24.104 --> 00:23:24.565
and I was like.

00:23:25.429 --> 00:23:25.749
What?

00:23:25.788 --> 00:23:26.289
No, I don't.

00:23:26.769 --> 00:23:27.691
I just couldn't do it.

00:23:27.851 --> 00:23:30.692
And then it took us having to skip.

00:23:30.813 --> 00:23:33.174
For then myself and two

00:23:33.275 --> 00:23:34.395
others to just kind of be like,

00:23:34.415 --> 00:23:35.356
we're going to figure this out.

00:23:35.376 --> 00:23:36.377
And then we brought it back.

00:23:37.057 --> 00:23:38.019
And that was,

00:23:38.138 --> 00:23:39.299
was what I would call like

00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:41.682
second wave of the local

00:23:41.842 --> 00:23:43.523
WordPress Phoenix team.

00:23:44.604 --> 00:23:47.446
And every single time we

00:23:47.787 --> 00:23:49.688
almost met in person for every meeting,

00:23:50.088 --> 00:23:51.349
like almost every single time.

00:23:51.930 --> 00:23:54.112
And so, and we're all roughly like,

00:23:55.566 --> 00:23:57.367
I guess compatible and all

00:23:57.387 --> 00:23:59.430
come from different park walks of life,

00:23:59.790 --> 00:24:00.811
different, you know,

00:24:00.912 --> 00:24:02.834
identities and all of that.

00:24:02.854 --> 00:24:04.536
But for some reason we just

00:24:05.217 --> 00:24:05.877
liked each other.

00:24:06.979 --> 00:24:07.459
We just,

00:24:07.558 --> 00:24:09.961
it just was like a match made in Elysium.

00:24:10.021 --> 00:24:10.923
I keep saying that because

00:24:10.942 --> 00:24:12.224
it's fun to say instead of heaven.

00:24:13.605 --> 00:24:16.628
But we just loved each other.

00:24:17.289 --> 00:24:18.391
We were like friends.

00:24:18.431 --> 00:24:20.813
We would hang out outside of WordPress.

00:24:20.873 --> 00:24:24.436
We celebrated each other's lives and wins.

00:24:24.777 --> 00:24:25.538
We would go to each other's

00:24:25.597 --> 00:24:28.019
houses and break bread together.

00:24:28.681 --> 00:24:29.541
And all the while,

00:24:30.301 --> 00:24:32.303
we poured our blood, sweat,

00:24:32.323 --> 00:24:33.962
and tears into the

00:24:34.002 --> 00:24:35.803
community and into WordCamps.

00:24:36.044 --> 00:24:38.463
And then even that second wave,

00:24:38.503 --> 00:24:39.944
WordCamp Phoenix was still big,

00:24:40.005 --> 00:24:41.184
was still like a six hundred,

00:24:41.244 --> 00:24:41.625
five hundred,

00:24:41.684 --> 00:24:43.164
six hundred person event and

00:24:43.605 --> 00:24:44.766
still just incredible.

00:24:45.445 --> 00:24:46.925
And then also coincidentally,

00:24:47.826 --> 00:24:48.846
I didn't know that was my

00:24:48.886 --> 00:24:51.968
calling was events because I was just,

00:24:51.988 --> 00:24:52.968
that's a whole other story,

00:24:52.988 --> 00:24:54.228
but I didn't have any identity.

00:24:54.248 --> 00:24:55.388
I had no idea who I was

00:24:55.449 --> 00:24:56.888
other than at the time, wife and mom.

00:24:57.689 --> 00:25:00.910
And I was just, didn't know it at the time,

00:25:00.930 --> 00:25:01.990
but just naturally gifted

00:25:02.029 --> 00:25:02.891
in running events.

00:25:03.111 --> 00:25:04.510
And then Carol comes from an

00:25:04.550 --> 00:25:05.372
events background.

00:25:05.991 --> 00:25:07.432
So we were just like killing it.

00:25:07.471 --> 00:25:08.051
We were just like

00:25:08.251 --> 00:25:09.472
accidentally putting on

00:25:09.692 --> 00:25:10.813
such an amazing show.

00:25:10.873 --> 00:25:11.093
I mean,

00:25:11.173 --> 00:25:12.814
something equivalent to a flagship

00:25:13.233 --> 00:25:16.095
in the way it's ran and the level.

00:25:16.115 --> 00:25:16.255
Yeah.

00:25:16.855 --> 00:25:18.135
And so it just felt good.

00:25:18.855 --> 00:25:21.076
Every time we would end a WordCamp,

00:25:21.596 --> 00:25:22.978
we were energized.

00:25:23.238 --> 00:25:24.057
Sure, we were tired.

00:25:24.659 --> 00:25:26.098
And sure, we needed to rest.

00:25:26.239 --> 00:25:28.140
But it was like, OK, let's do it again.

00:25:29.601 --> 00:25:30.461
And I'm sure you've heard this, Chris.

00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:32.162
It's like majority,

00:25:32.221 --> 00:25:33.623
whenever somebody ends a WordCamp,

00:25:33.643 --> 00:25:34.123
they're dead.

00:25:34.323 --> 00:25:35.084
They're done.

00:25:35.104 --> 00:25:36.023
They're burnt out.

00:25:36.124 --> 00:25:37.724
They're just, they've had it.

00:25:38.404 --> 00:25:39.984
And we weren't doing that.

00:25:40.444 --> 00:25:43.026
We were just gaining even more momentum.

00:25:43.105 --> 00:25:44.705
And so then our teams would grow.

00:25:44.826 --> 00:25:45.105
And sure,

00:25:45.125 --> 00:25:46.267
there'd be people that would come

00:25:46.366 --> 00:25:46.826
in and out.

00:25:47.166 --> 00:25:48.446
But it was always this core.

00:25:48.787 --> 00:25:50.748
And actually, through all of those years,

00:25:50.887 --> 00:25:53.087
at the core was Carol and then myself.

00:25:53.688 --> 00:25:55.348
And then what I would say,

00:25:56.249 --> 00:25:57.148
part of the second wave was

00:25:57.189 --> 00:25:58.088
also Dave Ryan.

00:25:58.588 --> 00:26:00.029
And then now into that third wave,

00:26:00.650 --> 00:26:02.250
which I would call post-pandemic,

00:26:03.170 --> 00:26:05.050
was myself, Dave Ryan, and Carol.

00:26:05.230 --> 00:26:05.990
And just...

00:26:07.171 --> 00:26:08.612
I don't know why, Chris,

00:26:08.832 --> 00:26:10.353
but we fought for it.

00:26:10.593 --> 00:26:11.773
We were going through it.

00:26:11.913 --> 00:26:12.153
I mean,

00:26:12.233 --> 00:26:14.115
now we're not celebrating each

00:26:14.134 --> 00:26:14.775
other's wins.

00:26:15.375 --> 00:26:16.817
We're suffering with each other.

00:26:17.156 --> 00:26:18.698
There was cancer.

00:26:18.798 --> 00:26:19.738
There was divorce.

00:26:20.137 --> 00:26:21.098
There was depression.

00:26:22.098 --> 00:26:23.299
I don't think any single one

00:26:23.319 --> 00:26:24.941
of us had the like glory

00:26:24.961 --> 00:26:26.942
story of the pandemic where

00:26:26.981 --> 00:26:27.682
it was so nice.

00:26:27.722 --> 00:26:28.502
We got to reset.

00:26:28.522 --> 00:26:29.384
We didn't have to work.

00:26:29.403 --> 00:26:29.943
Like we're all

00:26:30.364 --> 00:26:30.923
hustling.

00:26:31.544 --> 00:26:34.625
And I don't know why we just

00:26:34.665 --> 00:26:35.885
were determined to keep the

00:26:35.925 --> 00:26:36.705
community alive.

00:26:37.267 --> 00:26:39.207
And maybe I do know why,

00:26:39.748 --> 00:26:41.067
but it just was this thing

00:26:41.087 --> 00:26:43.848
that we all had this desire to do it.

00:26:43.888 --> 00:26:45.349
And in TBH,

00:26:45.369 --> 00:26:46.410
there were times when maybe one

00:26:46.450 --> 00:26:47.490
of us was like, I don't got it.

00:26:47.509 --> 00:26:48.351
But then the other person

00:26:48.391 --> 00:26:49.310
was there to carry you.

00:26:49.451 --> 00:26:51.432
So it was really, truly a partnership.

00:26:52.112 --> 00:26:53.854
That idea where partnerships work,

00:26:53.913 --> 00:26:55.194
where when one is weak,

00:26:55.214 --> 00:26:56.615
the other is strong and

00:26:57.276 --> 00:26:58.396
where there's deficiencies,

00:26:58.916 --> 00:27:01.019
someone comes up and fills the gap.

00:27:01.638 --> 00:27:04.500
And, and we were virtual just for a little,

00:27:04.922 --> 00:27:05.142
I mean,

00:27:05.221 --> 00:27:06.502
basically as long as we needed to

00:27:06.522 --> 00:27:08.403
be safely, you know,

00:27:08.884 --> 00:27:10.105
but as soon as we could

00:27:10.605 --> 00:27:12.487
with whatever steps we would need to take,

00:27:12.527 --> 00:27:15.409
whether it was masks or social distancing,

00:27:15.608 --> 00:27:15.970
all that,

00:27:16.049 --> 00:27:17.711
we were in person as soon as we could.

00:27:18.151 --> 00:27:18.531
And yeah,

00:27:19.352 --> 00:27:21.414
I think, too, a lot of our community,

00:27:21.775 --> 00:27:22.976
we love co-working spaces.

00:27:23.777 --> 00:27:26.140
And so then we were able to

00:27:26.299 --> 00:27:27.761
use our respective

00:27:27.781 --> 00:27:29.063
co-working spaces to meet.

00:27:29.384 --> 00:27:31.226
So then that made locations easy.

00:27:32.207 --> 00:27:33.528
And I think, honestly,

00:27:33.868 --> 00:27:36.672
we've got some extroverts.

00:27:36.692 --> 00:27:37.573
I think that helps.

00:27:38.272 --> 00:27:39.213
Yeah, like I am.

00:27:39.534 --> 00:27:40.815
Carol definitely is.

00:27:40.835 --> 00:27:42.536
I don't know if she knows that.

00:27:43.336 --> 00:27:44.157
But really, truly,

00:27:44.218 --> 00:27:46.459
this idea of the actual

00:27:46.479 --> 00:27:48.080
definition of extroversion

00:27:48.141 --> 00:27:49.280
and introversion and the

00:27:49.300 --> 00:27:50.342
way you process energy.

00:27:50.823 --> 00:27:53.505
So like when Carol and I are around others,

00:27:53.644 --> 00:27:54.585
we gain energy.

00:27:55.226 --> 00:27:57.548
And that's not to say,

00:27:57.567 --> 00:27:58.587
because an introvert very

00:27:58.608 --> 00:28:00.509
much can be outgoing, be a blast,

00:28:00.549 --> 00:28:00.970
have fun.

00:28:01.230 --> 00:28:03.751
But they're slowly draining, right?

00:28:03.791 --> 00:28:04.472
And then they need to go

00:28:04.512 --> 00:28:05.614
recharge on their own.

00:28:05.753 --> 00:28:06.694
Where I'm like...

00:28:07.692 --> 00:28:08.874
Just like now this like

00:28:08.953 --> 00:28:10.756
generator who's like all pumped up.

00:28:10.796 --> 00:28:11.816
And then now when I like

00:28:11.836 --> 00:28:13.076
when I come back from a WordCamp,

00:28:13.317 --> 00:28:14.238
I need to make sure I have

00:28:14.278 --> 00:28:15.619
things scheduled because

00:28:15.660 --> 00:28:17.221
I'll go into a spiral

00:28:17.361 --> 00:28:19.502
stupor because I'm like,

00:28:19.522 --> 00:28:20.864
I need to be around others.

00:28:20.923 --> 00:28:22.605
Part of it might be a little codependent,

00:28:22.744 --> 00:28:23.726
which I don't like that part.

00:28:23.786 --> 00:28:25.468
But but regardless,

00:28:25.988 --> 00:28:28.109
that helps bring the energy forward.

00:28:28.549 --> 00:28:31.311
and so now here we are and

00:28:31.692 --> 00:28:32.932
we've our community has

00:28:32.972 --> 00:28:34.595
been at one time five

00:28:34.634 --> 00:28:36.115
meetups per month they all

00:28:36.135 --> 00:28:37.656
had their own like there

00:28:37.676 --> 00:28:38.577
was like a marketing a

00:28:38.657 --> 00:28:41.038
business developer uh

00:28:41.259 --> 00:28:43.320
general wordpress there was

00:28:43.421 --> 00:28:44.582
a divi there was a divi

00:28:44.602 --> 00:28:46.022
meetup um there was woo

00:28:46.502 --> 00:28:47.683
there there was a like I

00:28:47.703 --> 00:28:49.345
mean we had so many and

00:28:49.506 --> 00:28:50.205
every single one of them

00:28:50.246 --> 00:28:51.086
had their own leader

00:28:51.646 --> 00:28:53.387
And so, yes, that's like ebbed and flowed.

00:28:53.847 --> 00:28:54.969
But even right now,

00:28:55.048 --> 00:28:56.529
post pandemic in this time, Chris,

00:28:56.549 --> 00:28:57.490
you talked about like right

00:28:57.530 --> 00:28:59.392
now we're like probably the worst ever,

00:28:59.471 --> 00:29:00.531
especially in the states

00:29:00.692 --> 00:29:02.073
overall when it comes to at

00:29:02.113 --> 00:29:03.374
least community involvement.

00:29:04.194 --> 00:29:06.056
And so we are down to one

00:29:06.875 --> 00:29:07.856
one meetup per month.

00:29:07.876 --> 00:29:08.017
But

00:29:08.665 --> 00:29:10.527
Dear God, we have like fought for it.

00:29:10.847 --> 00:29:11.667
We have kept it.

00:29:12.909 --> 00:29:14.109
We sometimes fight like

00:29:14.130 --> 00:29:15.131
brothers and sisters

00:29:15.891 --> 00:29:17.172
amongst like our leadership team,

00:29:17.192 --> 00:29:18.173
but we stay together.

00:29:18.232 --> 00:29:19.294
And I think that's the key.

00:29:19.334 --> 00:29:20.775
That's what makes a healthy partnership,

00:29:20.835 --> 00:29:21.055
right?

00:29:21.115 --> 00:29:23.477
Is that there's no promises.

00:29:23.497 --> 00:29:24.178
And I don't know where we

00:29:24.198 --> 00:29:25.038
get in this world where

00:29:25.238 --> 00:29:26.078
you're not going to feel

00:29:26.338 --> 00:29:29.401
ick or annoyance or even be

00:29:29.442 --> 00:29:30.422
upset with each other.

00:29:31.083 --> 00:29:33.023
But the people who overcome that,

00:29:33.104 --> 00:29:34.484
the people who push through

00:29:34.525 --> 00:29:36.707
that because of, I'm going to say it,

00:29:37.287 --> 00:29:37.567
love,

00:29:38.546 --> 00:29:38.826
You know,

00:29:38.885 --> 00:29:40.708
like this genuine idea that we

00:29:40.768 --> 00:29:42.849
can love each other in a

00:29:42.890 --> 00:29:44.491
capacity that's appropriate, you know,

00:29:44.531 --> 00:29:46.493
for whatever the relationship is.

00:29:47.115 --> 00:29:47.976
We've done that.

00:29:48.576 --> 00:29:50.038
We've done that as a community.

00:29:50.278 --> 00:29:52.941
And I don't even say that to sort of brag.

00:29:52.980 --> 00:29:55.403
I just say that to, like, somehow we just,

00:29:55.462 --> 00:29:56.243
like, we had to.

00:29:56.483 --> 00:29:56.924
We had to.

00:29:56.964 --> 00:29:57.786
We fought for it.

00:29:58.226 --> 00:29:58.405
And...

00:29:59.227 --> 00:30:02.289
Our next meetup is actually in two days.

00:30:02.670 --> 00:30:04.872
And there's been times too,

00:30:05.471 --> 00:30:06.393
and I'm saying a lot,

00:30:06.432 --> 00:30:08.013
but if anyone's listening

00:30:08.034 --> 00:30:09.095
and find it helpful,

00:30:10.096 --> 00:30:11.376
we just have a meetup.

00:30:11.596 --> 00:30:13.739
Even if we didn't plan,

00:30:14.239 --> 00:30:15.279
there's always somebody who

00:30:15.299 --> 00:30:16.461
could just off the cuff

00:30:16.500 --> 00:30:17.561
talk about WordPress.

00:30:17.602 --> 00:30:19.423
And anyone who knows how meetups work,

00:30:19.442 --> 00:30:21.164
you very much attract a beginner crowd.

00:30:21.744 --> 00:30:23.105
So almost everybody could

00:30:23.125 --> 00:30:24.547
just go off and talk about

00:30:24.606 --> 00:30:26.108
something beginner for WordPress.

00:30:26.689 --> 00:30:28.590
But sometimes, too, when we don't,

00:30:28.832 --> 00:30:29.853
we'll just have a social.

00:30:30.272 --> 00:30:31.575
We'll just get together at a

00:30:31.634 --> 00:30:32.935
restaurant and just hang

00:30:32.976 --> 00:30:33.696
out with each other.

00:30:34.258 --> 00:30:35.960
And honestly, after all this,

00:30:36.039 --> 00:30:37.141
I started by saying I think

00:30:37.181 --> 00:30:37.981
it's because we're friends.

00:30:38.823 --> 00:30:41.445
But what we do with the entire community,

00:30:41.625 --> 00:30:42.527
not even leadership team,

00:30:42.567 --> 00:30:44.009
is we cultivate community.

00:30:44.189 --> 00:30:46.451
friendliness and warmth and

00:30:46.491 --> 00:30:48.554
we invite after every

00:30:48.574 --> 00:30:50.155
meetup every meetup almost

00:30:50.395 --> 00:30:51.298
just about every meetup we

00:30:51.317 --> 00:30:52.538
invite everyone out to come

00:30:52.578 --> 00:30:54.520
out with us and to like get

00:30:54.761 --> 00:30:55.962
break bread together you

00:30:55.982 --> 00:30:57.585
know or just even just hang

00:30:57.625 --> 00:30:59.707
out together and and I

00:30:59.747 --> 00:31:01.449
think that that helps I

00:31:01.490 --> 00:31:03.111
think that when people come to our meetup

00:31:03.761 --> 00:31:05.304
They feel welcomed.

00:31:05.523 --> 00:31:07.185
They feel cared for.

00:31:07.945 --> 00:31:09.587
And that's saying something

00:31:09.627 --> 00:31:10.328
because there are times

00:31:10.669 --> 00:31:11.670
when even I showed up to a

00:31:11.690 --> 00:31:13.832
meetup and I'm like, I am not well.

00:31:14.633 --> 00:31:15.713
I am worthless right now.

00:31:15.733 --> 00:31:16.575
And I don't mean worthless

00:31:16.615 --> 00:31:17.395
like my self-worth,

00:31:17.415 --> 00:31:18.676
but meaning like to the

00:31:18.717 --> 00:31:20.019
event itself because I'm

00:31:20.058 --> 00:31:20.880
going through life.

00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:23.662
And the rest of the team has my back.

00:31:24.323 --> 00:31:25.444
you know so I could be off

00:31:25.664 --> 00:31:26.826
you know still supporting

00:31:26.905 --> 00:31:28.567
but also struggling and

00:31:28.587 --> 00:31:29.950
they've got me and it's

00:31:29.990 --> 00:31:32.492
vice versa as well and so

00:31:32.512 --> 00:31:36.298
that was a lot um and I

00:31:36.357 --> 00:31:37.598
feel like that segues into

00:31:37.618 --> 00:31:39.362
like our response to word

00:31:39.402 --> 00:31:40.722
camp us but I'll let you we

00:31:40.742 --> 00:31:41.523
could talk about that later

00:31:41.544 --> 00:31:42.384
if that's if you gotta

00:31:42.905 --> 00:31:44.748
a structure no I was I was I

00:31:44.768 --> 00:31:46.368
was just uh I have no

00:31:46.409 --> 00:31:49.873
structure never no I was

00:31:49.893 --> 00:31:50.973
gonna I was gonna try to

00:31:51.094 --> 00:31:52.674
highlight I think um what

00:31:52.714 --> 00:31:53.796
carol said which I don't

00:31:53.816 --> 00:31:54.696
remember off the top of my

00:31:54.757 --> 00:31:55.978
head exactly but for anyone

00:31:55.998 --> 00:31:58.601
who didn't watch uh the the

00:31:58.641 --> 00:32:00.182
video or wasn't there or

00:32:00.241 --> 00:32:00.903
isn't really in the

00:32:00.923 --> 00:32:01.604
wordpress community who

00:32:01.624 --> 00:32:02.765
might be uh catching this

00:32:02.865 --> 00:32:05.907
it was something to the effect of um like

00:32:06.268 --> 00:32:07.509
uh because the phoenix

00:32:07.528 --> 00:32:08.869
community hadn't been

00:32:09.609 --> 00:32:11.371
contacted consulted before

00:32:11.431 --> 00:32:13.232
the decision was made um

00:32:13.413 --> 00:32:13.913
and it was sort of a

00:32:13.972 --> 00:32:15.673
response to that and and uh

00:32:16.055 --> 00:32:17.275
basically saying like

00:32:17.335 --> 00:32:19.457
please you know we are here

00:32:19.596 --> 00:32:20.877
and we are passionate and

00:32:20.897 --> 00:32:22.159
we want to contribute and

00:32:22.179 --> 00:32:23.199
we want to be part of this

00:32:23.419 --> 00:32:24.559
and phoenix is a special

00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:25.401
place and there are special

00:32:25.421 --> 00:32:27.301
people and let's make this

00:32:27.362 --> 00:32:28.242
really good and I thought

00:32:28.262 --> 00:32:29.063
that was a really good

00:32:29.103 --> 00:32:30.864
thing to close on um and I

00:32:30.923 --> 00:32:31.484
also thought it was a

00:32:31.525 --> 00:32:32.726
pretty good thing to just

00:32:32.806 --> 00:32:35.768
call out uh because um

00:32:36.407 --> 00:32:37.749
There was a point in time,

00:32:39.209 --> 00:32:40.190
which is maybe a peek

00:32:40.210 --> 00:32:41.869
behind the curtain for

00:32:41.910 --> 00:32:42.830
folks that are outside the

00:32:42.851 --> 00:32:43.611
WordPress community.

00:32:44.151 --> 00:32:44.932
There wasn't a point in time

00:32:44.951 --> 00:32:46.152
when cities would petition

00:32:46.311 --> 00:32:49.613
for being the host of WordCamp US.

00:32:49.854 --> 00:32:50.854
And I think basically

00:32:50.894 --> 00:32:53.174
post-COVID that kind of stopped.

00:32:53.694 --> 00:32:55.076
and cities were just just

00:32:55.317 --> 00:32:57.519
unilaterally selected um

00:32:57.640 --> 00:32:59.162
based on I don't know

00:32:59.201 --> 00:33:00.884
someone's criteria not mine

00:33:01.525 --> 00:33:03.987
um so like that was a

00:33:04.048 --> 00:33:05.548
little bit of a like okay

00:33:05.709 --> 00:33:07.330
this was done that's cool

00:33:07.711 --> 00:33:08.853
but also come talk to us

00:33:08.873 --> 00:33:10.674
because you know we can

00:33:10.714 --> 00:33:13.719
help well and the the

00:33:15.494 --> 00:33:16.576
I don't know if it's ironic,

00:33:17.018 --> 00:33:18.079
it might be coincidence,

00:33:18.140 --> 00:33:21.945
but we were one of those cities twice.

00:33:22.426 --> 00:33:23.268
We applied in twenty

00:33:23.288 --> 00:33:24.851
fourteen and in twenty eighteen.

00:33:25.836 --> 00:33:27.338
And so we applied the

00:33:27.398 --> 00:33:29.780
inaugural year and it was

00:33:30.221 --> 00:33:31.343
Philly was chosen and we

00:33:31.383 --> 00:33:32.304
all kind of felt like, oh,

00:33:32.324 --> 00:33:33.045
that's perfect.

00:33:33.085 --> 00:33:33.965
It's where Kemp U.S.

00:33:34.006 --> 00:33:36.669
It's like the birthplace of, you know,

00:33:36.769 --> 00:33:38.750
America, you know,

00:33:38.810 --> 00:33:40.011
and it was great events.

00:33:40.092 --> 00:33:40.613
I loved it.

00:33:40.972 --> 00:33:42.034
And I'll never forget.

00:33:42.295 --> 00:33:44.497
Also, Asterix, I'll never forget.

00:33:44.616 --> 00:33:45.798
It was one of the two years.

00:33:45.917 --> 00:33:46.798
I think it was the second year.

00:33:47.660 --> 00:33:48.119
Or the first year.

00:33:48.160 --> 00:33:48.661
I don't remember.

00:33:48.681 --> 00:33:51.342
But like walking up and there's Josh.

00:33:51.362 --> 00:33:53.002
I don't know how to say his last name.

00:33:53.423 --> 00:33:54.563
Standing in what was the

00:33:54.804 --> 00:33:58.265
silhouette of Pantheon.

00:33:59.026 --> 00:33:59.766
And it was someone else.

00:33:59.786 --> 00:34:00.506
It was just them two just

00:34:00.605 --> 00:34:01.567
both kind of like this.

00:34:02.835 --> 00:34:04.256
Just smiling and not really

00:34:04.276 --> 00:34:04.876
knowing what to do,

00:34:04.896 --> 00:34:06.678
but standing in what was their booth.

00:34:07.919 --> 00:34:09.760
But anyway, that was total asterisk.

00:34:09.780 --> 00:34:11.442
Definitely don't have to go into that.

00:34:11.501 --> 00:34:13.443
But they were great events.

00:34:13.663 --> 00:34:15.945
And forever, we still tell these stories.

00:34:16.185 --> 00:34:17.707
Ten years later,

00:34:17.866 --> 00:34:18.887
we still tell these stories.

00:34:19.568 --> 00:34:20.489
And then the next two years,

00:34:20.529 --> 00:34:21.269
it was Nashville.

00:34:21.911 --> 00:34:22.931
And then that year, we...

00:34:23.652 --> 00:34:25.432
We applied, it was myself, Carol,

00:34:25.973 --> 00:34:28.795
and someone who moved out of Phoenix,

00:34:28.876 --> 00:34:30.556
but his name was Justin Tucker.

00:34:31.036 --> 00:34:32.998
And Carol, Justin, and I, oh my god,

00:34:33.039 --> 00:34:35.199
we just loved each other deeply.

00:34:35.340 --> 00:34:37.101
And we poured our blood, sweat,

00:34:37.121 --> 00:34:38.661
and tears into this amazing

00:34:38.802 --> 00:34:41.764
application that was just

00:34:42.264 --> 00:34:43.306
over the top amazing.

00:34:43.425 --> 00:34:44.746
I mean, to this day,

00:34:44.766 --> 00:34:45.847
there's no doubt in my mind

00:34:47.128 --> 00:34:48.869
our proposal was just the winner.

00:34:49.570 --> 00:34:51.931
but it wasn't chosen based on that.

00:34:52.032 --> 00:34:52.251
It was,

00:34:52.472 --> 00:34:54.673
I honestly don't technically know why,

00:34:55.054 --> 00:34:56.195
but they ended up choosing St.

00:34:56.215 --> 00:34:56.655
Louis.

00:34:57.335 --> 00:34:58.717
And so St.

00:34:58.737 --> 00:34:59.577
Louis got the one year,

00:34:59.617 --> 00:35:00.659
but then the pandemic hit.

00:35:00.679 --> 00:35:02.139
So then, so yes.

00:35:02.300 --> 00:35:03.360
So then post pandemic,

00:35:03.400 --> 00:35:04.461
they essentially stopped

00:35:04.541 --> 00:35:07.224
the call for cities and then chose,

00:35:07.603 --> 00:35:08.324
you know, San Diego,

00:35:08.344 --> 00:35:10.065
then DC and then Portland

00:35:10.146 --> 00:35:11.447
based on other reasons.

00:35:11.708 --> 00:35:14.570
And apparently still with Phoenix, um,

00:35:14.769 --> 00:35:16.251
So, you know,

00:35:16.291 --> 00:35:17.931
so at first that was kind of

00:35:17.952 --> 00:35:21.032
our reaction was one, just utter shock.

00:35:21.233 --> 00:35:22.873
And I was lucky enough to be

00:35:22.893 --> 00:35:23.653
sitting next to Mark

00:35:23.693 --> 00:35:25.755
Szymanski who caught my,

00:35:25.835 --> 00:35:28.597
my very raw reaction on camera,

00:35:30.177 --> 00:35:31.958
which just cracked me up.

00:35:32.938 --> 00:35:34.780
But also we just,

00:35:35.320 --> 00:35:36.621
it's literally balancing

00:35:36.701 --> 00:35:38.961
both elation and also like,

00:35:39.943 --> 00:35:42.324
Like my, what I said on the video,

00:35:42.364 --> 00:35:45.704
what the fuck, you know, and,

00:35:45.804 --> 00:35:48.025
and a little bit like, bro, serious,

00:35:48.425 --> 00:35:50.485
like we applied and all this and now,

00:35:50.644 --> 00:35:53.465
and it's so caught off guard, you know?

00:35:53.925 --> 00:35:55.407
Um, but we can't,

00:35:55.487 --> 00:35:56.226
I think that's also what

00:35:56.266 --> 00:35:57.106
makes us an amazing

00:35:57.146 --> 00:35:59.447
community is we are very forgiving.

00:35:59.646 --> 00:36:01.228
We are very gracious and kind.

00:36:01.947 --> 00:36:03.409
We hold those values.

00:36:04.349 --> 00:36:06.989
But also I'm confident enough to say,

00:36:07.090 --> 00:36:08.190
I mean, nobody's perfect,

00:36:08.630 --> 00:36:11.451
but I think it affects our

00:36:11.490 --> 00:36:12.931
community as a whole.

00:36:13.452 --> 00:36:15.152
And I think that people know

00:36:15.172 --> 00:36:16.452
that and they see that and

00:36:16.813 --> 00:36:18.653
that people actually do get better.

00:36:19.594 --> 00:36:20.494
within our community.

00:36:20.793 --> 00:36:22.414
I see it within our own leadership team.

00:36:23.155 --> 00:36:24.155
The things that we say,

00:36:24.275 --> 00:36:25.735
I see us getting better.

00:36:25.956 --> 00:36:27.976
And so to that point,

00:36:28.637 --> 00:36:30.277
we're the best team to

00:36:30.938 --> 00:36:33.778
blindside because we're over here like,

00:36:33.798 --> 00:36:35.539
yeah, that kind of sucked,

00:36:35.639 --> 00:36:37.739
but we're going to do our

00:36:37.780 --> 00:36:39.440
darndest to be a part of

00:36:39.481 --> 00:36:40.400
this and to help.

00:36:41.121 --> 00:36:43.141
And on a personal note, I've said this,

00:36:43.742 --> 00:36:45.461
I literally live in downtown Phoenix.

00:36:45.501 --> 00:36:47.041
Like right now I'm in downtown Phoenix.

00:36:47.061 --> 00:36:48.262
Like all the clips of that

00:36:48.282 --> 00:36:49.862
video is like my backyard.

00:36:50.302 --> 00:36:51.402
And because I live in a like

00:36:51.443 --> 00:36:52.483
three-story townhouse,

00:36:52.523 --> 00:36:53.523
I don't have a backyard.

00:36:55.164 --> 00:36:55.503
So like,

00:36:55.563 --> 00:36:57.045
it's literally like where I go and

00:36:57.065 --> 00:36:57.925
hang out and play.

00:36:58.164 --> 00:36:59.885
So I'm like, personally,

00:37:00.005 --> 00:37:00.965
even compared to the rest

00:37:01.005 --> 00:37:02.885
of WordPress Phoenix, I'm

00:37:03.144 --> 00:37:03.744
I'm like, guys,

00:37:03.864 --> 00:37:05.045
this is literally where I live.

00:37:05.485 --> 00:37:06.206
You guys coming.

00:37:06.646 --> 00:37:08.505
It's going to be like, I'm hosting you.

00:37:09.186 --> 00:37:10.166
And I, I'm going to,

00:37:10.365 --> 00:37:11.346
I don't care what anyone says.

00:37:11.385 --> 00:37:12.806
I'm just naturally going to host.

00:37:12.887 --> 00:37:15.867
Cause I love hosting anyway.

00:37:16.226 --> 00:37:18.668
Um, so my, my impression, uh,

00:37:18.688 --> 00:37:20.047
is that you're, you, uh,

00:37:20.148 --> 00:37:22.708
are not necessarily a,

00:37:23.088 --> 00:37:24.369
as much of a code contributor,

00:37:24.389 --> 00:37:25.009
but you're definitely a,

00:37:25.829 --> 00:37:27.688
a contributor to the

00:37:27.849 --> 00:37:30.050
overall WordPress community.

00:37:30.789 --> 00:37:32.630
Um, talk about.

00:37:33.197 --> 00:37:36.018
how being involved in the

00:37:36.059 --> 00:37:38.161
community and other types

00:37:38.481 --> 00:37:39.702
of contributions,

00:37:39.882 --> 00:37:42.583
how to value those things.

00:37:42.603 --> 00:37:45.025
Because I feel like a lot of times,

00:37:45.065 --> 00:37:46.606
particularly in development communities,

00:37:46.626 --> 00:37:47.947
we get so caught up in

00:37:48.545 --> 00:37:50.509
contributor with a capital C,

00:37:50.648 --> 00:37:51.530
meaning somebody who

00:37:51.610 --> 00:37:52.992
actually makes commits to core.

00:37:53.713 --> 00:37:55.054
And I very strongly believe

00:37:55.076 --> 00:37:55.976
that there are many other

00:37:55.996 --> 00:37:57.038
ways to contribute to the

00:37:57.117 --> 00:37:58.260
ecosystem of a development

00:37:58.300 --> 00:38:00.884
community that are outside

00:38:01.023 --> 00:38:02.786
of contributing to the core

00:38:04.007 --> 00:38:05.329
nugget of software that is

00:38:05.409 --> 00:38:08.432
the thing around which we circumnavigate.

00:38:08.992 --> 00:38:10.815
There's all sorts of other

00:38:10.855 --> 00:38:14.018
things out there.

00:38:14.039 --> 00:38:16.701
Talk about how that affects

00:38:16.721 --> 00:38:18.463
you or how your perception

00:38:18.682 --> 00:38:23.869
of this contributing to the

00:38:23.889 --> 00:38:24.989
community in ways that

00:38:25.030 --> 00:38:25.911
don't involve code.

00:38:27.556 --> 00:38:27.856
Sure.

00:38:28.737 --> 00:38:29.677
One, full disclosure,

00:38:29.818 --> 00:38:31.458
I do have a core contributor badge.

00:38:31.619 --> 00:38:33.420
Great.

00:38:33.719 --> 00:38:34.420
I do too.

00:38:34.481 --> 00:38:35.501
It's probably a total of

00:38:35.581 --> 00:38:38.222
five lines of code that I've committed.

00:38:38.342 --> 00:38:38.702
Okay.

00:38:39.063 --> 00:38:42.425
Well, mine is not even remotely close.

00:38:42.545 --> 00:38:46.027
It's because I helped when last update,

00:38:46.327 --> 00:38:47.166
almost a year ago,

00:38:47.407 --> 00:38:48.108
there was some problems

00:38:48.128 --> 00:38:48.947
with Divi and I was still

00:38:48.967 --> 00:38:51.088
working for Elegant Paints.

00:38:51.228 --> 00:38:52.150
I like was there as the

00:38:52.190 --> 00:38:53.289
mediator helping everyone

00:38:53.369 --> 00:38:54.630
solve it as fast as possible.

00:38:54.670 --> 00:38:56.112
So somebody gave me props and I'm like,

00:38:56.132 --> 00:38:56.431
yay.

00:38:57.742 --> 00:39:03.387
I got props in WordPress for

00:39:03.907 --> 00:39:05.429
advocating to take the font

00:39:05.469 --> 00:39:07.510
manager out of WordPress

00:39:08.311 --> 00:39:10.994
because of the way it would

00:39:11.014 --> 00:39:11.755
have been implemented

00:39:11.795 --> 00:39:12.795
because it wouldn't work on

00:39:13.695 --> 00:39:16.139
Pantheon as designed at first.

00:39:16.159 --> 00:39:18.721
So I got props for not doing a thing.

00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:20.661
Not nice.

00:39:20.780 --> 00:39:21.782
I'm like, however you get it.

00:39:21.862 --> 00:39:23.123
I'm just cracking up at that.

00:39:23.302 --> 00:39:26.784
But I think that it goes

00:39:26.824 --> 00:39:28.507
back to what I was

00:39:28.547 --> 00:39:30.327
referring to earlier and

00:39:30.487 --> 00:39:33.289
that there is this belief

00:39:33.771 --> 00:39:37.393
in this project that supersedes code.

00:39:38.193 --> 00:39:40.815
Because it really isn't about the code.

00:39:41.217 --> 00:39:42.378
It is about the community.

00:39:42.478 --> 00:39:43.318
At the end of the day,

00:39:43.498 --> 00:39:45.760
even those who contribute to the code,

00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:47.621
even the, like, the, like,

00:39:47.661 --> 00:39:49.643
dedicated core contributors, like, they,

00:39:49.764 --> 00:39:52.025
like, why do we stay?

00:39:52.405 --> 00:39:52.726
You know?

00:39:52.927 --> 00:39:55.208
And this has been the why question.

00:39:55.849 --> 00:39:57.469
in humanity for so long,

00:39:58.030 --> 00:40:00.032
yet it never fails that we

00:40:00.052 --> 00:40:00.751
get away from it.

00:40:01.231 --> 00:40:02.472
You know, I just crack up.

00:40:02.572 --> 00:40:03.713
I just think about like the

00:40:03.753 --> 00:40:06.675
early two thousands of starbs.

00:40:06.914 --> 00:40:07.275
I used to,

00:40:07.516 --> 00:40:09.036
so I worked for starbs for five

00:40:09.056 --> 00:40:10.177
years in the early two

00:40:10.197 --> 00:40:11.177
thousands and I called it

00:40:11.217 --> 00:40:11.938
the golden years.

00:40:11.958 --> 00:40:12.958
Like we still had to learn

00:40:12.998 --> 00:40:13.838
to be a barista.

00:40:13.898 --> 00:40:15.760
I still had to learn how to pull a shot,

00:40:15.981 --> 00:40:17.561
how to gauge the outside

00:40:17.601 --> 00:40:18.762
temperature and humidity to

00:40:18.802 --> 00:40:19.442
make sure you get that

00:40:19.481 --> 00:40:20.402
perfect shot where now it's

00:40:20.443 --> 00:40:21.963
all a machine and you know, whatever.

00:40:22.704 --> 00:40:22.905
And,

00:40:23.065 --> 00:40:24.965
but like everything was about being

00:40:25.206 --> 00:40:26.807
the third space, you know,

00:40:26.947 --> 00:40:27.969
they wanted Starbucks to be

00:40:27.989 --> 00:40:28.688
the third space.

00:40:28.728 --> 00:40:31.170
They wanted people to come

00:40:31.492 --> 00:40:32.552
not because of the coffee,

00:40:32.592 --> 00:40:33.592
but because of the people.

00:40:34.273 --> 00:40:34.594
And,

00:40:34.793 --> 00:40:37.016
and so somehow maybe that was like the

00:40:37.155 --> 00:40:38.878
start of it for me.

00:40:39.677 --> 00:40:41.639
And then I come from,

00:40:41.980 --> 00:40:43.320
I'm ex-evangelical now,

00:40:43.561 --> 00:40:44.663
but I come from an

00:40:44.742 --> 00:40:46.364
evangelical world and I

00:40:46.963 --> 00:40:48.164
all the church life I was a

00:40:48.226 --> 00:40:51.108
part of and communities were bullshit.

00:40:51.168 --> 00:40:52.248
Like they were like

00:40:52.349 --> 00:40:54.791
peacocking and it was the who's who.

00:40:54.931 --> 00:40:56.713
And it was like probably

00:40:56.773 --> 00:40:58.454
more like closed software

00:40:58.494 --> 00:40:59.755
where you go to some event

00:40:59.934 --> 00:41:01.876
and you can't get into the clicks,

00:41:02.016 --> 00:41:02.456
you know,

00:41:02.496 --> 00:41:05.199
because and figuratively and literally,

00:41:05.239 --> 00:41:05.440
you know,

00:41:05.460 --> 00:41:06.581
people would be circled up with

00:41:06.601 --> 00:41:07.802
their backs, you know,

00:41:07.842 --> 00:41:09.163
so then you're not welcoming.

00:41:09.563 --> 00:41:10.643
And that was what I was used to.

00:41:11.005 --> 00:41:11.824
So I'm used to going to

00:41:11.844 --> 00:41:13.346
these church conferences and

00:41:14.347 --> 00:41:15.467
disclosure, full disclosure,

00:41:15.827 --> 00:41:17.028
not every community church

00:41:17.048 --> 00:41:18.050
community is like that.

00:41:18.110 --> 00:41:19.271
But the one I was a part of

00:41:19.291 --> 00:41:20.871
was a very rock star vibe

00:41:21.192 --> 00:41:22.512
and just felt like I

00:41:22.552 --> 00:41:23.534
couldn't ever get in.

00:41:24.034 --> 00:41:25.394
And here's like me,

00:41:25.554 --> 00:41:27.797
who's like a very friendly person.

00:41:27.996 --> 00:41:29.797
And I like people like I'm

00:41:29.898 --> 00:41:31.199
one of those who loves humans,

00:41:31.239 --> 00:41:33.201
like people like I don't like dogs.

00:41:33.320 --> 00:41:34.141
I mean, I don't like humans.

00:41:34.161 --> 00:41:34.702
I love dogs.

00:41:34.722 --> 00:41:35.581
And I'm over here like I

00:41:35.621 --> 00:41:37.364
like dogs and I love humans, you know,

00:41:37.384 --> 00:41:37.603
and

00:41:38.164 --> 00:41:39.804
And yet I just felt like I

00:41:39.824 --> 00:41:41.106
was never good enough in

00:41:41.146 --> 00:41:42.427
these church communities.

00:41:42.927 --> 00:41:44.369
Then I go to WordCamp San Diego,

00:41:44.509 --> 00:41:50.353
and I'm like, my mind is blown,

00:41:50.793 --> 00:41:51.914
just absolutely blown

00:41:52.333 --> 00:41:54.976
because so many people kept

00:41:55.016 --> 00:41:55.757
coming up to me,

00:41:56.117 --> 00:41:57.938
just wanting to get to know me,

00:41:58.378 --> 00:41:59.478
even on a simple

00:41:59.559 --> 00:42:01.240
introduction level for no reason,

00:42:01.860 --> 00:42:02.942
no reason at all,

00:42:03.161 --> 00:42:04.103
just because I was there.

00:42:04.963 --> 00:42:06.364
And I couldn't believe it.

00:42:06.405 --> 00:42:07.284
I could not believe it.

00:42:07.385 --> 00:42:09.728
I was just flabbergasted and

00:42:09.768 --> 00:42:10.949
I was beaming.

00:42:11.329 --> 00:42:12.530
I remember leaving that just

00:42:12.550 --> 00:42:13.530
like I couldn't stop smiling.

00:42:13.550 --> 00:42:15.994
I was just like, why do I feel so good?

00:42:16.153 --> 00:42:17.275
And I just wanted more.

00:42:17.894 --> 00:42:18.615
I wanted more.

00:42:18.655 --> 00:42:20.016
And I think that's honestly

00:42:20.637 --> 00:42:22.239
the effect that this open

00:42:22.278 --> 00:42:23.880
source project has on people.

00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:25.161
Because one,

00:42:25.382 --> 00:42:27.905
it is a very noble thing to fight for.

00:42:28.565 --> 00:42:30.885
the why of the project still amazes me,

00:42:30.965 --> 00:42:32.786
you know, to democratize publishing.

00:42:32.806 --> 00:42:34.728
Like it still is so,

00:42:36.009 --> 00:42:37.690
the idea behind open source

00:42:38.570 --> 00:42:39.871
is really beautiful.

00:42:39.891 --> 00:42:41.692
I mean, in every sense,

00:42:42.431 --> 00:42:43.251
and open source doesn't

00:42:43.271 --> 00:42:44.972
just apply necessarily to code.

00:42:45.293 --> 00:42:46.594
It applies to science, you know,

00:42:46.634 --> 00:42:48.715
it applies to like research

00:42:48.954 --> 00:42:50.635
and this idea that we give

00:42:50.675 --> 00:42:51.215
it to everybody.

00:42:52.016 --> 00:42:56.259
Like I don't, it baffles my brain how

00:42:57.402 --> 00:42:59.244
And I don't mean to take it places.

00:42:59.903 --> 00:43:00.425
Maybe I do,

00:43:00.644 --> 00:43:02.565
but like how capitalism could

00:43:02.606 --> 00:43:04.007
come in and change that.

00:43:04.367 --> 00:43:06.387
And I am not anti capitalism,

00:43:06.427 --> 00:43:08.409
but I am anti what capitalism is today.

00:43:08.829 --> 00:43:10.610
And, and it takes away.

00:43:10.710 --> 00:43:11.911
So I'm going to fight this

00:43:11.971 --> 00:43:13.331
fight for this project.

00:43:13.452 --> 00:43:14.773
And yeah, no, this is not my world.

00:43:14.992 --> 00:43:15.813
I mean, yes.

00:43:15.873 --> 00:43:17.775
In high school, I love science and math,

00:43:17.795 --> 00:43:18.795
but I also was like this

00:43:19.034 --> 00:43:20.396
crazy performing artist.

00:43:21.016 --> 00:43:22.317
And here I am in this

00:43:22.356 --> 00:43:23.737
community and my gift is

00:43:23.777 --> 00:43:25.539
human connection and events and

00:43:26.079 --> 00:43:27.579
and yet I found my place.

00:43:28.679 --> 00:43:30.902
So this is a lot to say,

00:43:30.942 --> 00:43:31.782
but essentially my

00:43:32.262 --> 00:43:33.322
contributions to the

00:43:33.342 --> 00:43:34.443
community have been that,

00:43:34.983 --> 00:43:36.304
have been very much like

00:43:37.144 --> 00:43:39.365
very active in planning

00:43:39.405 --> 00:43:40.326
WordCamps and planning

00:43:40.365 --> 00:43:42.626
meetups and being involved

00:43:42.666 --> 00:43:44.487
with Contributor Day and

00:43:44.568 --> 00:43:45.668
even some of the community

00:43:45.708 --> 00:43:46.568
summits that have happened

00:43:46.628 --> 00:43:47.570
over the past decade.

00:43:48.130 --> 00:43:50.871
And that really is truly contributing,

00:43:51.472 --> 00:43:52.672
contributing to this project.

00:43:52.931 --> 00:43:53.873
And when you think about it,

00:43:54.704 --> 00:43:55.925
I would say it's very high up there,

00:43:56.244 --> 00:43:59.007
community, because yes,

00:43:59.047 --> 00:44:00.128
we wouldn't be here without the code.

00:44:00.168 --> 00:44:01.570
And the code is absolutely important.

00:44:01.610 --> 00:44:02.349
And I don't think anyone's

00:44:02.389 --> 00:44:03.271
taken away from that.

00:44:03.952 --> 00:44:05.773
But the people who are

00:44:05.793 --> 00:44:06.353
working on the code

00:44:06.373 --> 00:44:10.137
together need to get along

00:44:11.057 --> 00:44:15.201
and have a safe space and feel welcome.

00:44:15.561 --> 00:44:15.942
Because

00:44:16.862 --> 00:44:19.704
We, I think, ended up ignoring feelings.

00:44:19.724 --> 00:44:21.306
And I think over time

00:44:21.365 --> 00:44:22.306
society has done this,

00:44:23.168 --> 00:44:24.268
but it never takes away

00:44:24.289 --> 00:44:25.449
from the fact of how

00:44:25.530 --> 00:44:26.809
important it actually is.

00:44:27.030 --> 00:44:29.733
And yeah, we need to subdue our feelings.

00:44:29.773 --> 00:44:30.092
And yeah,

00:44:30.152 --> 00:44:32.355
there's times our feelings lie to us.

00:44:32.815 --> 00:44:35.516
But on the basis of feelings

00:44:35.876 --> 00:44:37.739
is why we do anything and everything.

00:44:38.478 --> 00:44:40.561
And if I don't feel welcome,

00:44:40.880 --> 00:44:42.643
I'm not going to be part of a community.

00:44:42.822 --> 00:44:44.204
I don't care how good the code is.

00:44:44.623 --> 00:44:45.545
I'm not going to be part of it.

00:44:46.106 --> 00:44:47.085
So, I mean,

00:44:47.166 --> 00:44:48.608
ultimately that has really been

00:44:48.748 --> 00:44:50.668
like mainly where I've

00:44:50.708 --> 00:44:53.010
contributed is all over the

00:44:53.150 --> 00:44:54.932
up and down inside and out is

00:44:55.349 --> 00:44:56.329
is basically the human

00:44:56.389 --> 00:44:58.130
contribution to WordPress.

00:44:58.570 --> 00:45:00.489
And it is truly because I believe in it.

00:45:00.849 --> 00:45:01.931
I do believe in WordPress.

00:45:01.990 --> 00:45:03.451
I do believe in owning your own data.

00:45:03.471 --> 00:45:05.431
I have this vision.

00:45:05.570 --> 00:45:06.731
I haven't figured it out yet,

00:45:06.771 --> 00:45:07.931
but how to bring it to Gen

00:45:07.972 --> 00:45:09.572
Z and help Gen Z understand

00:45:09.612 --> 00:45:11.152
that this is important to our world,

00:45:11.213 --> 00:45:12.672
especially the more and

00:45:12.713 --> 00:45:14.112
more we're giving ourselves away,

00:45:14.454 --> 00:45:15.554
especially with AI.

00:45:15.713 --> 00:45:17.514
And we need to have a place

00:45:17.554 --> 00:45:18.454
where it's ours.

00:45:19.175 --> 00:45:20.735
And the best way I know how

00:45:20.894 --> 00:45:22.195
to contribute to that is

00:45:22.414 --> 00:45:23.376
through human connection.

00:45:24.835 --> 00:45:25.496
I don't know if that was

00:45:25.536 --> 00:45:26.498
fully answering your question,

00:45:26.699 --> 00:45:28.420
but that is how I contribute.

00:45:28.521 --> 00:45:29.523
And if that gives anyone

00:45:29.563 --> 00:45:31.264
else any inspiration or any ideas,

00:45:31.344 --> 00:45:34.628
then there it is.

00:45:34.648 --> 00:45:35.170
Talk about,

00:45:35.409 --> 00:45:37.452
so you're getting ready for PressConf, uh,

00:45:37.472 --> 00:45:40.677
now it's been made tickets are available,

00:45:40.797 --> 00:45:41.257
I think, uh,

00:45:42.420 --> 00:45:43.260
Pre-order or something?

00:45:43.300 --> 00:45:43.521
Yeah.

00:45:43.641 --> 00:45:44.222
Tickets are available.

00:45:45.302 --> 00:45:47.987
Working on event logistics, I'm sure.

00:45:48.067 --> 00:45:52.211
Talk about what you're doing

00:45:52.871 --> 00:45:54.474
in planning for twenty

00:45:54.514 --> 00:45:56.175
twenty six as much as you

00:45:56.195 --> 00:45:57.177
can or as much as you're

00:45:57.378 --> 00:45:59.539
willing to and what people

00:45:59.559 --> 00:46:01.262
can expect to find at

00:46:01.302 --> 00:46:02.443
PressConf twenty twenty six.

00:46:03.543 --> 00:46:03.782
Yeah.

00:46:03.884 --> 00:46:06.025
So early bird tickets,

00:46:06.045 --> 00:46:07.168
we call them startup.

00:46:07.527 --> 00:46:09.231
Startup tickets are on sale

00:46:09.271 --> 00:46:10.552
right now and they last to

00:46:10.572 --> 00:46:11.253
the end of the month.

00:46:12.215 --> 00:46:15.119
And we are keeping a lot of

00:46:15.199 --> 00:46:17.561
it the same in that still

00:46:17.661 --> 00:46:19.503
smaller and intimate.

00:46:20.125 --> 00:46:20.405
And.

00:46:21.586 --> 00:46:22.768
still in the same place at

00:46:22.788 --> 00:46:23.668
Tempe Mission Palms.

00:46:24.528 --> 00:46:27.231
And we are right now very

00:46:27.271 --> 00:46:29.831
much in the speaker and

00:46:29.931 --> 00:46:33.753
sponsor stage of planning the conference.

00:46:33.994 --> 00:46:36.476
So we reverse engineer speakers.

00:46:37.036 --> 00:46:37.277
You know,

00:46:37.317 --> 00:46:39.657
we don't do a call for speakers

00:46:39.818 --> 00:46:40.898
and submit your talk.

00:46:42.380 --> 00:46:43.840
Most of the speakers come

00:46:43.860 --> 00:46:45.101
because we get some idea

00:46:45.842 --> 00:46:47.742
and then we hang out with

00:46:47.922 --> 00:46:48.884
somebody and we're like,

00:46:49.643 --> 00:46:51.385
We want you to speak and

00:46:52.005 --> 00:46:55.289
let's just all brainstorm some ideas.

00:46:55.869 --> 00:46:56.909
And we want all of these

00:46:56.929 --> 00:46:58.472
topics to sort of fit that

00:46:58.532 --> 00:47:01.594
vibe of being raw and

00:47:01.614 --> 00:47:02.954
vulnerable from the stage,

00:47:03.255 --> 00:47:04.255
sharing from your heart,

00:47:05.536 --> 00:47:06.458
also sharing from your

00:47:06.498 --> 00:47:07.980
knowledge and your intellect.

00:47:09.400 --> 00:47:11.021
there's only eleven sessions

00:47:11.121 --> 00:47:13.262
we think that could change

00:47:13.503 --> 00:47:15.565
but right now we also

00:47:15.625 --> 00:47:17.005
reverse engineered it by

00:47:17.106 --> 00:47:18.045
planning our entire

00:47:18.085 --> 00:47:19.907
schedule first and then

00:47:19.987 --> 00:47:22.809
filling you know and so

00:47:23.230 --> 00:47:24.429
it's a lot of strategy I

00:47:24.971 --> 00:47:25.891
say that word all the time

00:47:25.931 --> 00:47:26.911
it just makes me laugh but

00:47:27.853 --> 00:47:28.672
yeah we had to be real

00:47:29.153 --> 00:47:32.775
strategic with it so some

00:47:32.856 --> 00:47:34.336
speakers actually it didn't

00:47:34.356 --> 00:47:35.137
even happen last year

00:47:35.978 --> 00:47:38.039
Very few have just reached out.

00:47:38.860 --> 00:47:42.362
And if it fits, then it works.

00:47:42.443 --> 00:47:43.603
And that did happen a couple

00:47:43.643 --> 00:47:44.364
times last year.

00:47:45.905 --> 00:47:47.186
And probably this year as well.

00:47:47.726 --> 00:47:49.788
So that's the big thing right now.

00:47:51.028 --> 00:47:52.710
I do have a team.

00:47:53.010 --> 00:47:53.650
And actually,

00:47:53.690 --> 00:47:55.672
Carol is my speaker coordinator.

00:47:55.813 --> 00:47:56.853
But a lot of it is...

00:47:57.673 --> 00:47:59.393
It is mostly it's me on

00:47:59.434 --> 00:48:00.514
every single team and not

00:48:00.554 --> 00:48:01.994
because of micromanaging,

00:48:02.034 --> 00:48:03.614
but because it is still it

00:48:03.914 --> 00:48:04.614
is my business.

00:48:04.655 --> 00:48:05.195
And I'm the one at the end

00:48:05.215 --> 00:48:07.815
of the day who has to, like, you know,

00:48:07.835 --> 00:48:08.576
make all this happen.

00:48:08.615 --> 00:48:09.576
And everyone else is still

00:48:09.655 --> 00:48:10.876
running their business

00:48:11.036 --> 00:48:11.956
businesses as well.

00:48:12.257 --> 00:48:13.737
So.

00:48:13.757 --> 00:48:15.356
So, yeah, we're very much in that part.

00:48:15.436 --> 00:48:16.677
And that one's going to take a while.

00:48:16.737 --> 00:48:17.657
It's not easy.

00:48:18.157 --> 00:48:19.438
I would say it's even harder

00:48:19.478 --> 00:48:21.398
because there's not a lot of sessions.

00:48:21.637 --> 00:48:21.777
One.

00:48:22.398 --> 00:48:23.059
And every single one of

00:48:23.079 --> 00:48:24.139
those got to drop the mic.

00:48:24.179 --> 00:48:24.818
Yeah.

00:48:25.579 --> 00:48:25.940
You know,

00:48:26.601 --> 00:48:29.463
and we also I won't share too

00:48:29.503 --> 00:48:30.824
much about this part yet.

00:48:31.106 --> 00:48:32.306
Not that only because we're

00:48:32.327 --> 00:48:33.268
still figuring it out.

00:48:33.547 --> 00:48:34.849
But I'm very open.

00:48:34.889 --> 00:48:35.530
I love to share.

00:48:35.630 --> 00:48:37.411
But we're figuring out our

00:48:37.932 --> 00:48:39.695
theme for this year.

00:48:39.755 --> 00:48:40.715
We end up kind of

00:48:41.135 --> 00:48:42.657
organically coming up with a theme.

00:48:42.697 --> 00:48:43.759
And last year it was.

00:48:44.675 --> 00:48:45.655
it ended up being like,

00:48:45.755 --> 00:48:47.016
let's get better together,

00:48:47.436 --> 00:48:49.317
which is very a crack up

00:48:49.356 --> 00:48:50.376
because I am an overgrown

00:48:50.396 --> 00:48:51.657
child and people hear that.

00:48:51.677 --> 00:48:52.577
And it probably sounds like

00:48:52.717 --> 00:48:53.998
some nineties kids, something,

00:48:54.077 --> 00:48:55.538
which let's just be honest.

00:48:55.557 --> 00:48:56.197
It kind of is.

00:48:57.318 --> 00:48:59.298
But it was really needed, you know,

00:48:59.318 --> 00:49:01.318
in the midst of all the drama.

00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:03.739
And I just really so heavy

00:49:03.780 --> 00:49:04.719
on my heart to provide a

00:49:04.739 --> 00:49:05.780
space where everyone could

00:49:05.800 --> 00:49:07.141
come and feel welcome.

00:49:07.601 --> 00:49:08.360
And,

00:49:09.141 --> 00:49:12.222
all parties in the WordPress space.

00:49:12.824 --> 00:49:14.485
This year, it's a little different.

00:49:15.005 --> 00:49:16.586
Not that we're not still in

00:49:16.626 --> 00:49:17.467
the middle of some of the

00:49:17.487 --> 00:49:19.949
drama or it's still playing itself out,

00:49:21.090 --> 00:49:22.891
but now we're trying to

00:49:22.990 --> 00:49:24.172
understand and navigate how

00:49:24.192 --> 00:49:26.793
to move forward and get better.

00:49:26.833 --> 00:49:28.135
So yes, we were like,

00:49:28.175 --> 00:49:29.036
let's get better together.

00:49:29.096 --> 00:49:30.976
Okay, now next year, it's like,

00:49:31.217 --> 00:49:32.838
now how are we doing that?

00:49:33.239 --> 00:49:34.139
What does that look like?

00:49:34.800 --> 00:49:36.320
So there's some of a theme

00:49:36.360 --> 00:49:38.282
there that we're still figuring out.

00:49:39.152 --> 00:49:40.413
And then, yeah.

00:49:40.432 --> 00:49:42.594
And then we're, we're actually, uh,

00:49:42.635 --> 00:49:43.155
we're Kemp US.

00:49:43.175 --> 00:49:43.896
We're having lots of

00:49:43.916 --> 00:49:45.577
meetings with potential sponsors.

00:49:46.257 --> 00:49:47.739
So we're really excited.

00:49:48.159 --> 00:49:51.342
Me and Adam Weeks, he's my sponsor guy.

00:49:51.422 --> 00:49:54.684
We are like revamping and

00:49:54.744 --> 00:49:56.706
making it even more, uh,

00:49:56.887 --> 00:49:58.528
valuable for our sponsors

00:49:58.588 --> 00:50:00.489
and getting really clear on

00:50:00.510 --> 00:50:01.590
how to provide value for

00:50:02.211 --> 00:50:03.032
all the sponsors.

00:50:03.152 --> 00:50:05.855
And so I'm honestly really, really excited,

00:50:06.195 --> 00:50:06.996
but yeah.

00:50:07.155 --> 00:50:07.998
Those are the two biggest

00:50:08.018 --> 00:50:09.079
things right now that has

00:50:09.121 --> 00:50:12.648
taken up all of my life currently.

00:50:12.688 --> 00:50:13.690
Well, thank you so much, Raquel,

00:50:13.710 --> 00:50:15.094
for coming on the show.

00:50:15.894 --> 00:50:17.478
Where can people find you on the internet?

00:50:19.543 --> 00:50:21.103
Um, I'm pretty much anywhere,

00:50:21.244 --> 00:50:22.945
some variation of Raquel Carina.

00:50:22.965 --> 00:50:26.626
Uh, so, and if people are in WordPress,

00:50:26.666 --> 00:50:27.686
I'm sure I'll pop up

00:50:27.726 --> 00:50:29.547
because I'm sure we have mutual, you know,

00:50:29.807 --> 00:50:31.608
followers and friends and all that.

00:50:32.528 --> 00:50:34.789
And, uh, email it's,

00:50:35.170 --> 00:50:36.231
you could do Raquel at

00:50:36.251 --> 00:50:38.072
wonderlandcurious.com.

00:50:39.052 --> 00:50:39.873
And, um,

00:50:39.992 --> 00:50:42.054
I'm on almost every WordPress

00:50:42.114 --> 00:50:44.315
Slack instance and I am at

00:50:44.375 --> 00:50:46.655
Raquel every single one of them.

00:50:47.255 --> 00:50:48.277
So it's pretty easy.

00:50:48.416 --> 00:50:48.577
Yeah.

00:50:48.657 --> 00:50:50.161
That seems legit.

00:50:50.641 --> 00:50:50.822
All right.

00:50:50.842 --> 00:50:52.907
Well, thanks again for coming on.

00:50:52.947 --> 00:50:54.592
Thanks for everyone tuning

00:50:54.652 --> 00:50:55.954
into this episode and we'll

00:50:55.994 --> 00:50:56.617
see you on the internet.