Welcome to Community & Code,
the podcast about the
people behind the commits.
I'm here today with Raquel,
a longtime WordPress community member,
leader of the WordPress Phoenix community,
founder, owner of Wonderland Curious.
Raquel's been in the
community for a long time.
But if you aren't in the
WordPress community or you
don't know Raquel and you
haven't seen her around, Raquel,
welcome to the show.
And why don't you introduce yourself?
Thank you.
Yep, I'm Raquel.
And I, gosh,
I started in WordPress in twenty ten.
I used to run an agency,
kind of became a WooCommerce agency.
And then I exited the agency
in like twenty eighteen and
then got hired with Elegant
Themes for six years.
And then here I am now
running my own business.
But through all of that, I've been like a
big lover of WordPress and the community.
And honestly,
the idea to democratize
publishing with this open source project.
So yeah,
that's everything all summarized
into a sentence.
Yeah.
The whole thing.
I mean, you talked about it,
but like dig into a little
bit about like what drew
you specifically to WordPress?
Did you look at other things
or were you looking at
other things before or was
it just like you found the
thing and then it sort of just clicked?
You know what?
This is probably going to be
the most different answer
you could ever have to that question.
And I would love to find out
if anyone else has the same answer.
Because I did not come into
WordPress as the implementer, designer,
even coder.
I came in as...
the partner in operations
for the business I started
with my ex-partner.
So I didn't actually choose WordPress.
In a way,
you could say WordPress chose me.
There you go.
But I do remember, you know,
a lot of stuff in the two
thousands was built with flash, you know,
and there was like a lot of
that and just like HTML custom and
And yeah, Dreamweaver and all that.
And I just remember my
ex-partner at the time was like,
there's this new thing called WordPress.
I really want to get into it.
And so that was honestly how
I got into it was he got
into it and then I followed suit.
So I'm very curious if
anyone else ever has a very
similar answer.
I mean,
I think that that's not super uncommon.
I think that, yeah, I mean,
I think that for a lot of people,
you just, I mean,
certainly a lot of my
clients when I was
freelancing got WordPress
because that was the thing
that I was building with
and that was the thing that
I was advocating for.
um talk about your uh your
company wonderland curious
uh I know that you uh under
the guise perhaps of of
wonderland curious um uh
organized press conf last
year and we'll talk about
that a little bit later um
but yeah what is what is
wonderland curious and what
is it that you do these days
Yeah.
Okay.
I'm going to try to not talk your ear off.
You can talk my ear off.
We've got a long time.
I love talking.
So it was, I mean, honestly,
it's a passion project
that's been years in the making.
And that came about at the
perfect time in my life
when the stars and planets aligned.
I mean, that's the full truth.
I've had it inside of me for a long time,
but I didn't know it was there.
And then when I did know it was there,
I made a conscious choice
to choose my kids before that.
So I would say the seed was
this idea to plan group travel for kids.
For fun.
So just this idea that you
take twenty randos anywhere
around the world and you
unplug and you just hang out together.
So the feels are kind of
like adult summer camp or
like when you went to
summer camp as a kid and
you just are forever bonded
to the people you're with.
And it's an experience that
resets and rejuvenates and
that is a really hard model
to monetize just in itself.
And so while I was still
being a full-time mom, um,
I had kids when I was very young.
So now they're all adults.
And when my baby graduated high school,
it was right around the time when,
when the stars were
aligning to bring back press nomics,
which is what I, I now I call it, um,
press comp.
And, um,
all of it just made sense to
bring it together.
So I already knew I was
gonna fight hard to bring
what was Pressonomics back.
And then my last child,
my daughter graduated from
high school and all of a
sudden I had an open
calendar and I have not had
an open calendar
I mean, God knows how long,
because I was always a very
involved mom and was
convinced and still am that
your children want your
time more than anything else,
more than any other
resource you would give them.
So then I, over that summer,
which would have been now two years ago,
no, a year ago, sorry, yeah,
a year ago last summer,
just strategized and came up with
the plan,
which was to like start my own company.
And I LLC'd a year ago, August.
And that company is Wonderland Curious.
And under that company would be events.
And so for hire,
I am for hire for anyone's events,
particularly tech events,
whether big or small.
Then to bring under that press comp,
which is my event,
but I still can be hired to
contract for other events.
And then to bring that
travel aspect to it as well.
So to still plan group travel,
which I'm working on.
I haven't released one yet.
And so those are the two
essential pillars to my business.
And I do love...
I love the Alice character
from Lewis Carroll.
And I very much identify with her.
Just like rough and tumble,
but very girly.
And as a child, I was very much that way.
Just like climbing trees in
my dresses and getting
dirty and getting into trouble.
Very curious and following my curiosity,
which...
feels like at times you're
getting into trouble,
but actually you learn and grow so much,
which is ultimately the story of Alice.
And,
and so I kind of wanted that to be
part of my theme, but subtly.
So yes, the name does show some of it,
but my tagline is curiouser
events and curiouser travel.
So yeah, that's the business.
And here I am finally doing
what I've been wanting to
do for so long and made it happen.
Yeah.
I will admit that when I
first heard the name,
I definitely got like summer,
like outdoor concert vibes, like,
you know, like, you know,
like outdoor festival.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like, I definitely like it.
It felt like it felt like
like a weekend in like
Joshua Tree or something.
Yeah.
And that is, honestly,
I don't mind that because
it is sort of whimsical.
That was very much Lewis Carroll,
a little psychedelic, you know, you know,
but also,
there's room for for changing
and modifying and
interpreting differently.
So yeah.
I love the name and the
story behind the name too.
My partner and I have an
Etsy shop for we do like
tie dye stuff like over the
summer when we have time
and we put it up on Etsy.
And the name of our shop is
Possible Octopus.
And the reason for the name,
besides being kind of a silly name,
is because Erin, my partner,
really likes going to the
beach and likes going tide
pooling and stuff.
and uh has said a couple
times uh well sort of like
a mantra is like whenever
you go to the beast there's
always a possible octopus
there's probably one out
there you just don't see it
um so the I so the idea of
like possible octopus was
uh was just uh yeah is a
cute like has nothing to do
with tie-dye but like is
like you know a kind of
like whimsical kind of name um I love it
Yeah.
I will also, so full disclosure,
the whole reason this podcast exists,
and we'll talk about
PressConf in a second,
is in part a product of
PressConf last year.
um there's basically two
inception points uh that um
that were sort of the key
sort of points that made
this podcast be I had been
thinking about getting
doing a podcast again uh
for a while and I didn't
really have like I wanted
to do it and I knew I
wanted to just talk to
people and I knew I could
like use my network and and
like go and reach out into
different groups and and uh
and grab people and
And I just wanted to have conversations,
but I didn't know what the
topic was going to be.
And I didn't want to just
have a tech podcast because
that's boring.
I don't want to talk about
tech all the time.
And like there's enough tech podcasts.
There's not a lot that I can
really do there that would
be super innovative or interesting.
But when I went to DrupalCon
for the first time last year,
there was a sticker,
and I posted about it on
social and whatever, that says,
and I have it on my water bottle,
come for the code,
stay for the community.
And that resonated with me because
that is why I've been in the
WordPress community for twenty odd years.
And I think that that's
probably why you've been in
the WordPress community for
the same amount of time, right?
And so to see this at an event,
like expressing that
sentiment at an event for a
CMS that I have not been a
part of was really interesting.
And it sort of lent
lent itself to this theme
that I sort of had,
this sense that I had over
the course of the week,
that we're more similar
with these other developer
communities than we are different.
And that sort of like fed
into this seed for this idea.
But it wasn't until PressConf,
which was literally a month later,
that it really was hammered home.
Because PressConf, which is the
successor to Pressnomics is
not your typical event.
I'll let you actually
describe maybe perhaps what
is different about Pressconf,
what's unique about Pressconf.
Yeah.
Um, several key points and, uh,
I'm probably be all over
the place with where I hit them.
Uh, but it is purposely small.
Uh,
so I guess in comparison to a flagship
event, uh,
so it's not thousands of people,
it's literally a couple
hundred people and that's
to keep it intimate.
It is purposely one track.
And with that one track,
there are no recordings at all.
And that is very intentional
because we really want each
and every talk to come with it,
to sort of drop the mic.
And
to feel safe as the speaker
to let it out and not have
fear that things might get
taken out of context and
you know and and also just
just not have any fear that
anything that will ever be
recorded and used against
them in the future now of
course that's not to say
that we now invite characters that
that would be someone who
would take advantage of
that or be someone who who
you would just question
okay that was not cool you
know so there there's
definitely a balance there
and speakers are chosen
based on trust so it's like
we want that we really want
that vulnerability and
privacy from the talks so
then therefore we're very
careful about who we choose
at the same time we're also we're
open to giving people chances.
So in that in itself is
pretty different from other, uh,
I would say WordCamp or just conferences.
Uh, I do love that asterisk that, you know,
WordCamps very much give
like first timers and all of that where,
where me being
and also press comp very
much believes that people
can change and get better
grow together and that's a
real tough one I think for
people that to wrestle with
because that means you're
giving people second
chances who maybe have
have not been the best in the past.
And that is one of my values.
And I,
that is something that is different
about press comp is that
everybody's invited.
We don't exclude anybody for
the most part.
I mean,
hasn't happened,
but if something were to
happen where it's just like, okay,
you just crossed a major
human level line and okay,
now you're out.
It's the same reason why
people would lose their
rights in life if they get
a felony or something like that.
But otherwise,
press comp really believes
in the power of change.
And that only happens if we
want to individually.
I can't change somebody
but I can change myself because I want to.
And every bit of part of
press comp creates a space
where change can happen.
At least we cultivate it.
And the other part that's different is, um,
we pretty much stay
together the whole time, you know,
start to finish.
Uh,
we're pretty much everybody's at the
resort together, take breaks together.
Uh, lunch is a choose your own adventure,
but everything's all right.
They're very walkable.
And then.
every evening, you know, there,
there's the opportunity
that you're still together
is so very high because
we're all in the same spot.
And so we're all hanging on
the hot tub together or,
or walk into a restaurant together.
Yep.
And then the also it's not crazy different,
but in our space, I think it is,
is the last day is a fun
day is a field trip day
where we give a couple of options,
always golf.
Cause we've got the golf
bros and they'll lose their minds.
They don't get their golf.
And I say that with love, but yeah.
And then this last year we did go-karts,
which was a huge hit.
So that is a day where we
take everything that we've
been stewing on and
wrestling with over the
past two days and just let
it sit and have fun together.
Because there's science
behind when you kind of end some real –
like heavy hitting time
emotionally and you just
kind of let go and not
think it actually helps
your brain process.
And it's the same idea of
when you're in the shower
and all of a sudden all
these ideas come flooding, you know,
or for me, it would be like, even like,
and maybe you too, like, like yoga or,
or even like dancing,
because I love to dance.
And then you're like, remember that later.
And then you don't.
And so that's the idea of that fourth day,
is to just be with each other still.
Because now when you are
together and an idea comes,
you could just be like, bro.
And by bro, I mean that androgynously.
Let me be very clear.
Because I use that term very
androgynously.
But, you know,
like I just got this idea
and like and maybe you're both busy,
but you're like you say it
and now both of you have it.
So then that not only do you
have a higher chance of
remembering what you just thought of,
but now you said it to someone else.
Right, right.
those are pretty yeah the
biggest differences um
there's also just because
it's uh there's only one
track over two days of of
conference days uh there's
not a lot of sessions so we
don't have a ton of
speakers uh and I think
those are the biggest
differences and maybe I
missed something you if you
remember something you could definitely
I just wanted to say that, like, you know,
that that intentionality
and that like the conscious
decision to not record and
what that means in terms of
the types of talks that are
given at press conferences, a any.
insert your own conference here, uh,
was another half of like
what formulated into my brain about, um,
about this show,
which was that I also
wanted to have real conversations.
Like that was the thing that clicked, uh,
was there is the, you know,
the come for the code,
stay for the community.
That was a big part of it.
And then the thing that
clicked was real conversations,
real people.
Yes.
We all share this, like.
We're in the same communities,
we're doing tech, whatever,
but we're also people.
And the people are far more
interesting than, I think,
the tech that we make and
that we produce.
And I'm much more happy to
have conversations with humans
than to just talk about the
stuff that you're building.
The stuff you're building is
fine and cool and fun.
And like, you know,
that's all wonderful and interesting.
But there's also like,
there's other shows for that.
There's other people you can
talk about the tech and get
super deep into like, you know,
the layers of your
infrastructural stack and whatever.
And like, that's cool.
But like,
what made you the person that you
are to build the product that you build?
Are you asking?
No, I mean, I mean, I can, um, no,
but that was, that's just sort of like,
uh, your inspiration.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
So, uh, yeah, you've been, um,
tell us about, so, uh, announced recently,
uh,
we can get into this and it's
moderately spicy.
Maybe I feel like I know
where you're going.
Yeah.
It was recently announced at
WordCamp US a couple weeks
ago that the next WordCamp
US will be in Phoenix in
the middle of August, which is awesome.
I live in Salt Lake City.
I have a pretty good idea of
what Phoenix is like in August.
Sure.
and I wanted to actually
focus more less about the
the announcement of it
being in phoenix uh because
there's there's drama and
we can talk about the drama
around that too but also
but more importantly what I
think um is valuable to
share here for our purposes
is like you said a lot after that about
the phoenix wordpress
community and what makes it
special and um like post
covid I know a lot of local
wordpress communities kind
of my my own in uh as as
well um kind of fell off
the map um but it feels
like you still have
something going on in
phoenix um to talk about
what makes the phoenix
wordpress community
work and what makes it
special and why you've kind
of stuck it out for so long?
Yeah.
I think there's a few things
that would explain why and how.
And really,
I think ultimately it could be
summed up by saying we are
genuinely friends, the leadership team.
And that I don't think...
happened on purpose like we
weren't like necessarily
like will you be my friend
you know like back and you
know when we're children
you know but it just worked
out that way and I think
incidentally we have some
passionate people on the
leadership team and when
you got passionate
and kind personalities magic
happens because you could
also have passionate and
not kind and then you have
a dictator you know like um
and throughout the years uh
when you have that all
ready to start it attracts
you know, and it attracts others.
So Carol Stambaugh,
who's the one who got up
and said what she said,
the very last question of
the keynote and Q&A.
And I mean, that was happening because her,
myself and like two others
on the Phoenix team were
like texting nonstop, you know,
when the announcement happened.
And then and I'm like, Carol,
get up there.
And
And I'm like, get up there.
And the reason why is like
it needed to be her.
She's the one who started
the meetup in twenty eleven.
But she mentioned that.
And Carol is we've joked
that she's like Mama WordPress,
but she is just I mean, her
She's a bundle of love.
And there's just something
about her that makes everybody better.
And I'm probably going to start crying.
And she's become like a big sister,
like a mentor to me.
And so I got in to, honestly,
I was part of the global
community before I even got
involved in the Phoenix community.
Just because when I first
got involved in WordPress,
it was through WordCamps and traveling.
And then I'm like, oh, but we at the time,
WordCamp Phoenix was the
biggest local WordCamp in
the world at the time.
And and so I'm like, well,
we got a really cool space
and I need to be involved.
And that was like my torch
as like the owner of my old
agency for I was like, well,
I'm going to be like facing
community big time of our agency.
And so I just got involved.
And it's so easy to work with her.
It's just so easy.
And then so then it just
starts to snowball.
Right.
And then even I remember the
last time where Camp
Phoenix was ginormous was
twenty fourteen.
And then the leader stepped
down and they needed a new
leader and they came up to
me and they're like, would you do it?
And I felt like a baby girl, you know,
and I was like.
What?
No, I don't.
I just couldn't do it.
And then it took us having to skip.
For then myself and two
others to just kind of be like,
we're going to figure this out.
And then we brought it back.
And that was,
was what I would call like
second wave of the local
WordPress Phoenix team.
And every single time we
almost met in person for every meeting,
like almost every single time.
And so, and we're all roughly like,
I guess compatible and all
come from different park walks of life,
different, you know,
identities and all of that.
But for some reason we just
liked each other.
We just,
it just was like a match made in Elysium.
I keep saying that because
it's fun to say instead of heaven.
But we just loved each other.
We were like friends.
We would hang out outside of WordPress.
We celebrated each other's lives and wins.
We would go to each other's
houses and break bread together.
And all the while,
we poured our blood, sweat,
and tears into the
community and into WordCamps.
And then even that second wave,
WordCamp Phoenix was still big,
was still like a six hundred,
five hundred,
six hundred person event and
still just incredible.
And then also coincidentally,
I didn't know that was my
calling was events because I was just,
that's a whole other story,
but I didn't have any identity.
I had no idea who I was
other than at the time, wife and mom.
And I was just, didn't know it at the time,
but just naturally gifted
in running events.
And then Carol comes from an
events background.
So we were just like killing it.
We were just like
accidentally putting on
such an amazing show.
I mean,
something equivalent to a flagship
in the way it's ran and the level.
Yeah.
And so it just felt good.
Every time we would end a WordCamp,
we were energized.
Sure, we were tired.
And sure, we needed to rest.
But it was like, OK, let's do it again.
And I'm sure you've heard this, Chris.
It's like majority,
whenever somebody ends a WordCamp,
they're dead.
They're done.
They're burnt out.
They're just, they've had it.
And we weren't doing that.
We were just gaining even more momentum.
And so then our teams would grow.
And sure,
there'd be people that would come
in and out.
But it was always this core.
And actually, through all of those years,
at the core was Carol and then myself.
And then what I would say,
part of the second wave was
also Dave Ryan.
And then now into that third wave,
which I would call post-pandemic,
was myself, Dave Ryan, and Carol.
And just...
I don't know why, Chris,
but we fought for it.
We were going through it.
I mean,
now we're not celebrating each
other's wins.
We're suffering with each other.
There was cancer.
There was divorce.
There was depression.
I don't think any single one
of us had the like glory
story of the pandemic where
it was so nice.
We got to reset.
We didn't have to work.
Like we're all
hustling.
And I don't know why we just
were determined to keep the
community alive.
And maybe I do know why,
but it just was this thing
that we all had this desire to do it.
And in TBH,
there were times when maybe one
of us was like, I don't got it.
But then the other person
was there to carry you.
So it was really, truly a partnership.
That idea where partnerships work,
where when one is weak,
the other is strong and
where there's deficiencies,
someone comes up and fills the gap.
And, and we were virtual just for a little,
I mean,
basically as long as we needed to
be safely, you know,
but as soon as we could
with whatever steps we would need to take,
whether it was masks or social distancing,
all that,
we were in person as soon as we could.
And yeah,
I think, too, a lot of our community,
we love co-working spaces.
And so then we were able to
use our respective
co-working spaces to meet.
So then that made locations easy.
And I think, honestly,
we've got some extroverts.
I think that helps.
Yeah, like I am.
Carol definitely is.
I don't know if she knows that.
But really, truly,
this idea of the actual
definition of extroversion
and introversion and the
way you process energy.
So like when Carol and I are around others,
we gain energy.
And that's not to say,
because an introvert very
much can be outgoing, be a blast,
have fun.
But they're slowly draining, right?
And then they need to go
recharge on their own.
Where I'm like...
Just like now this like
generator who's like all pumped up.
And then now when I like
when I come back from a WordCamp,
I need to make sure I have
things scheduled because
I'll go into a spiral
stupor because I'm like,
I need to be around others.
Part of it might be a little codependent,
which I don't like that part.
But but regardless,
that helps bring the energy forward.
and so now here we are and
we've our community has
been at one time five
meetups per month they all
had their own like there
was like a marketing a
business developer uh
general wordpress there was
a divi there was a divi
meetup um there was woo
there there was a like I
mean we had so many and
every single one of them
had their own leader
And so, yes, that's like ebbed and flowed.
But even right now,
post pandemic in this time, Chris,
you talked about like right
now we're like probably the worst ever,
especially in the states
overall when it comes to at
least community involvement.
And so we are down to one
one meetup per month.
But
Dear God, we have like fought for it.
We have kept it.
We sometimes fight like
brothers and sisters
amongst like our leadership team,
but we stay together.
And I think that's the key.
That's what makes a healthy partnership,
right?
Is that there's no promises.
And I don't know where we
get in this world where
you're not going to feel
ick or annoyance or even be
upset with each other.
But the people who overcome that,
the people who push through
that because of, I'm going to say it,
love,
You know,
like this genuine idea that we
can love each other in a
capacity that's appropriate, you know,
for whatever the relationship is.
We've done that.
We've done that as a community.
And I don't even say that to sort of brag.
I just say that to, like, somehow we just,
like, we had to.
We had to.
We fought for it.
And...
Our next meetup is actually in two days.
And there's been times too,
and I'm saying a lot,
but if anyone's listening
and find it helpful,
we just have a meetup.
Even if we didn't plan,
there's always somebody who
could just off the cuff
talk about WordPress.
And anyone who knows how meetups work,
you very much attract a beginner crowd.
So almost everybody could
just go off and talk about
something beginner for WordPress.
But sometimes, too, when we don't,
we'll just have a social.
We'll just get together at a
restaurant and just hang
out with each other.
And honestly, after all this,
I started by saying I think
it's because we're friends.
But what we do with the entire community,
not even leadership team,
is we cultivate community.
friendliness and warmth and
we invite after every
meetup every meetup almost
just about every meetup we
invite everyone out to come
out with us and to like get
break bread together you
know or just even just hang
out together and and I
think that that helps I
think that when people come to our meetup
They feel welcomed.
They feel cared for.
And that's saying something
because there are times
when even I showed up to a
meetup and I'm like, I am not well.
I am worthless right now.
And I don't mean worthless
like my self-worth,
but meaning like to the
event itself because I'm
going through life.
And the rest of the team has my back.
you know so I could be off
you know still supporting
but also struggling and
they've got me and it's
vice versa as well and so
that was a lot um and I
feel like that segues into
like our response to word
camp us but I'll let you we
could talk about that later
if that's if you gotta
a structure no I was I was I
was just uh I have no
structure never no I was
gonna I was gonna try to
highlight I think um what
carol said which I don't
remember off the top of my
head exactly but for anyone
who didn't watch uh the the
video or wasn't there or
isn't really in the
wordpress community who
might be uh catching this
it was something to the effect of um like
uh because the phoenix
community hadn't been
contacted consulted before
the decision was made um
and it was sort of a
response to that and and uh
basically saying like
please you know we are here
and we are passionate and
we want to contribute and
we want to be part of this
and phoenix is a special
place and there are special
people and let's make this
really good and I thought
that was a really good
thing to close on um and I
also thought it was a
pretty good thing to just
call out uh because um
There was a point in time,
which is maybe a peek
behind the curtain for
folks that are outside the
WordPress community.
There wasn't a point in time
when cities would petition
for being the host of WordCamp US.
And I think basically
post-COVID that kind of stopped.
and cities were just just
unilaterally selected um
based on I don't know
someone's criteria not mine
um so like that was a
little bit of a like okay
this was done that's cool
but also come talk to us
because you know we can
help well and the the
I don't know if it's ironic,
it might be coincidence,
but we were one of those cities twice.
We applied in twenty
fourteen and in twenty eighteen.
And so we applied the
inaugural year and it was
Philly was chosen and we
all kind of felt like, oh,
that's perfect.
It's where Kemp U.S.
It's like the birthplace of, you know,
America, you know,
and it was great events.
I loved it.
And I'll never forget.
Also, Asterix, I'll never forget.
It was one of the two years.
I think it was the second year.
Or the first year.
I don't remember.
But like walking up and there's Josh.
I don't know how to say his last name.
Standing in what was the
silhouette of Pantheon.
And it was someone else.
It was just them two just
both kind of like this.
Just smiling and not really
knowing what to do,
but standing in what was their booth.
But anyway, that was total asterisk.
Definitely don't have to go into that.
But they were great events.
And forever, we still tell these stories.
Ten years later,
we still tell these stories.
And then the next two years,
it was Nashville.
And then that year, we...
We applied, it was myself, Carol,
and someone who moved out of Phoenix,
but his name was Justin Tucker.
And Carol, Justin, and I, oh my god,
we just loved each other deeply.
And we poured our blood, sweat,
and tears into this amazing
application that was just
over the top amazing.
I mean, to this day,
there's no doubt in my mind
our proposal was just the winner.
but it wasn't chosen based on that.
It was,
I honestly don't technically know why,
but they ended up choosing St.
Louis.
And so St.
Louis got the one year,
but then the pandemic hit.
So then, so yes.
So then post pandemic,
they essentially stopped
the call for cities and then chose,
you know, San Diego,
then DC and then Portland
based on other reasons.
And apparently still with Phoenix, um,
So, you know,
so at first that was kind of
our reaction was one, just utter shock.
And I was lucky enough to be
sitting next to Mark
Szymanski who caught my,
my very raw reaction on camera,
which just cracked me up.
But also we just,
it's literally balancing
both elation and also like,
Like my, what I said on the video,
what the fuck, you know, and,
and a little bit like, bro, serious,
like we applied and all this and now,
and it's so caught off guard, you know?
Um, but we can't,
I think that's also what
makes us an amazing
community is we are very forgiving.
We are very gracious and kind.
We hold those values.
But also I'm confident enough to say,
I mean, nobody's perfect,
but I think it affects our
community as a whole.
And I think that people know
that and they see that and
that people actually do get better.
within our community.
I see it within our own leadership team.
The things that we say,
I see us getting better.
And so to that point,
we're the best team to
blindside because we're over here like,
yeah, that kind of sucked,
but we're going to do our
darndest to be a part of
this and to help.
And on a personal note, I've said this,
I literally live in downtown Phoenix.
Like right now I'm in downtown Phoenix.
Like all the clips of that
video is like my backyard.
And because I live in a like
three-story townhouse,
I don't have a backyard.
So like,
it's literally like where I go and
hang out and play.
So I'm like, personally,
even compared to the rest
of WordPress Phoenix, I'm
I'm like, guys,
this is literally where I live.
You guys coming.
It's going to be like, I'm hosting you.
And I, I'm going to,
I don't care what anyone says.
I'm just naturally going to host.
Cause I love hosting anyway.
Um, so my, my impression, uh,
is that you're, you, uh,
are not necessarily a,
as much of a code contributor,
but you're definitely a,
a contributor to the
overall WordPress community.
Um, talk about.
how being involved in the
community and other types
of contributions,
how to value those things.
Because I feel like a lot of times,
particularly in development communities,
we get so caught up in
contributor with a capital C,
meaning somebody who
actually makes commits to core.
And I very strongly believe
that there are many other
ways to contribute to the
ecosystem of a development
community that are outside
of contributing to the core
nugget of software that is
the thing around which we circumnavigate.
There's all sorts of other
things out there.
Talk about how that affects
you or how your perception
of this contributing to the
community in ways that
don't involve code.
Sure.
One, full disclosure,
I do have a core contributor badge.
Great.
I do too.
It's probably a total of
five lines of code that I've committed.
Okay.
Well, mine is not even remotely close.
It's because I helped when last update,
almost a year ago,
there was some problems
with Divi and I was still
working for Elegant Paints.
I like was there as the
mediator helping everyone
solve it as fast as possible.
So somebody gave me props and I'm like,
yay.
I got props in WordPress for
advocating to take the font
manager out of WordPress
because of the way it would
have been implemented
because it wouldn't work on
Pantheon as designed at first.
So I got props for not doing a thing.
Not nice.
I'm like, however you get it.
I'm just cracking up at that.
But I think that it goes
back to what I was
referring to earlier and
that there is this belief
in this project that supersedes code.
Because it really isn't about the code.
It is about the community.
At the end of the day,
even those who contribute to the code,
even the, like, the, like,
dedicated core contributors, like, they,
like, why do we stay?
You know?
And this has been the why question.
in humanity for so long,
yet it never fails that we
get away from it.
You know, I just crack up.
I just think about like the
early two thousands of starbs.
I used to,
so I worked for starbs for five
years in the early two
thousands and I called it
the golden years.
Like we still had to learn
to be a barista.
I still had to learn how to pull a shot,
how to gauge the outside
temperature and humidity to
make sure you get that
perfect shot where now it's
all a machine and you know, whatever.
And,
but like everything was about being
the third space, you know,
they wanted Starbucks to be
the third space.
They wanted people to come
not because of the coffee,
but because of the people.
And,
and so somehow maybe that was like the
start of it for me.
And then I come from,
I'm ex-evangelical now,
but I come from an
evangelical world and I
all the church life I was a
part of and communities were bullshit.
Like they were like
peacocking and it was the who's who.
And it was like probably
more like closed software
where you go to some event
and you can't get into the clicks,
you know,
because and figuratively and literally,
you know,
people would be circled up with
their backs, you know,
so then you're not welcoming.
And that was what I was used to.
So I'm used to going to
these church conferences and
disclosure, full disclosure,
not every community church
community is like that.
But the one I was a part of
was a very rock star vibe
and just felt like I
couldn't ever get in.
And here's like me,
who's like a very friendly person.
And I like people like I'm
one of those who loves humans,
like people like I don't like dogs.
I mean, I don't like humans.
I love dogs.
And I'm over here like I
like dogs and I love humans, you know,
and
And yet I just felt like I
was never good enough in
these church communities.
Then I go to WordCamp San Diego,
and I'm like, my mind is blown,
just absolutely blown
because so many people kept
coming up to me,
just wanting to get to know me,
even on a simple
introduction level for no reason,
no reason at all,
just because I was there.
And I couldn't believe it.
I could not believe it.
I was just flabbergasted and
I was beaming.
I remember leaving that just
like I couldn't stop smiling.
I was just like, why do I feel so good?
And I just wanted more.
I wanted more.
And I think that's honestly
the effect that this open
source project has on people.
Because one,
it is a very noble thing to fight for.
the why of the project still amazes me,
you know, to democratize publishing.
Like it still is so,
the idea behind open source
is really beautiful.
I mean, in every sense,
and open source doesn't
just apply necessarily to code.
It applies to science, you know,
it applies to like research
and this idea that we give
it to everybody.
Like I don't, it baffles my brain how
And I don't mean to take it places.
Maybe I do,
but like how capitalism could
come in and change that.
And I am not anti capitalism,
but I am anti what capitalism is today.
And, and it takes away.
So I'm going to fight this
fight for this project.
And yeah, no, this is not my world.
I mean, yes.
In high school, I love science and math,
but I also was like this
crazy performing artist.
And here I am in this
community and my gift is
human connection and events and
and yet I found my place.
So this is a lot to say,
but essentially my
contributions to the
community have been that,
have been very much like
very active in planning
WordCamps and planning
meetups and being involved
with Contributor Day and
even some of the community
summits that have happened
over the past decade.
And that really is truly contributing,
contributing to this project.
And when you think about it,
I would say it's very high up there,
community, because yes,
we wouldn't be here without the code.
And the code is absolutely important.
And I don't think anyone's
taken away from that.
But the people who are
working on the code
together need to get along
and have a safe space and feel welcome.
Because
We, I think, ended up ignoring feelings.
And I think over time
society has done this,
but it never takes away
from the fact of how
important it actually is.
And yeah, we need to subdue our feelings.
And yeah,
there's times our feelings lie to us.
But on the basis of feelings
is why we do anything and everything.
And if I don't feel welcome,
I'm not going to be part of a community.
I don't care how good the code is.
I'm not going to be part of it.
So, I mean,
ultimately that has really been
like mainly where I've
contributed is all over the
up and down inside and out is
is basically the human
contribution to WordPress.
And it is truly because I believe in it.
I do believe in WordPress.
I do believe in owning your own data.
I have this vision.
I haven't figured it out yet,
but how to bring it to Gen
Z and help Gen Z understand
that this is important to our world,
especially the more and
more we're giving ourselves away,
especially with AI.
And we need to have a place
where it's ours.
And the best way I know how
to contribute to that is
through human connection.
I don't know if that was
fully answering your question,
but that is how I contribute.
And if that gives anyone
else any inspiration or any ideas,
then there it is.
Talk about,
so you're getting ready for PressConf, uh,
now it's been made tickets are available,
I think, uh,
Pre-order or something?
Yeah.
Tickets are available.
Working on event logistics, I'm sure.
Talk about what you're doing
in planning for twenty
twenty six as much as you
can or as much as you're
willing to and what people
can expect to find at
PressConf twenty twenty six.
Yeah.
So early bird tickets,
we call them startup.
Startup tickets are on sale
right now and they last to
the end of the month.
And we are keeping a lot of
it the same in that still
smaller and intimate.
And.
still in the same place at
Tempe Mission Palms.
And we are right now very
much in the speaker and
sponsor stage of planning the conference.
So we reverse engineer speakers.
You know,
we don't do a call for speakers
and submit your talk.
Most of the speakers come
because we get some idea
and then we hang out with
somebody and we're like,
We want you to speak and
let's just all brainstorm some ideas.
And we want all of these
topics to sort of fit that
vibe of being raw and
vulnerable from the stage,
sharing from your heart,
also sharing from your
knowledge and your intellect.
there's only eleven sessions
we think that could change
but right now we also
reverse engineered it by
planning our entire
schedule first and then
filling you know and so
it's a lot of strategy I
say that word all the time
it just makes me laugh but
yeah we had to be real
strategic with it so some
speakers actually it didn't
even happen last year
Very few have just reached out.
And if it fits, then it works.
And that did happen a couple
times last year.
And probably this year as well.
So that's the big thing right now.
I do have a team.
And actually,
Carol is my speaker coordinator.
But a lot of it is...
It is mostly it's me on
every single team and not
because of micromanaging,
but because it is still it
is my business.
And I'm the one at the end
of the day who has to, like, you know,
make all this happen.
And everyone else is still
running their business
businesses as well.
So.
So, yeah, we're very much in that part.
And that one's going to take a while.
It's not easy.
I would say it's even harder
because there's not a lot of sessions.
One.
And every single one of
those got to drop the mic.
Yeah.
You know,
and we also I won't share too
much about this part yet.
Not that only because we're
still figuring it out.
But I'm very open.
I love to share.
But we're figuring out our
theme for this year.
We end up kind of
organically coming up with a theme.
And last year it was.
it ended up being like,
let's get better together,
which is very a crack up
because I am an overgrown
child and people hear that.
And it probably sounds like
some nineties kids, something,
which let's just be honest.
It kind of is.
But it was really needed, you know,
in the midst of all the drama.
And I just really so heavy
on my heart to provide a
space where everyone could
come and feel welcome.
And,
all parties in the WordPress space.
This year, it's a little different.
Not that we're not still in
the middle of some of the
drama or it's still playing itself out,
but now we're trying to
understand and navigate how
to move forward and get better.
So yes, we were like,
let's get better together.
Okay, now next year, it's like,
now how are we doing that?
What does that look like?
So there's some of a theme
there that we're still figuring out.
And then, yeah.
And then we're, we're actually, uh,
we're Kemp US.
We're having lots of
meetings with potential sponsors.
So we're really excited.
Me and Adam Weeks, he's my sponsor guy.
We are like revamping and
making it even more, uh,
valuable for our sponsors
and getting really clear on
how to provide value for
all the sponsors.
And so I'm honestly really, really excited,
but yeah.
Those are the two biggest
things right now that has
taken up all of my life currently.
Well, thank you so much, Raquel,
for coming on the show.
Where can people find you on the internet?
Um, I'm pretty much anywhere,
some variation of Raquel Carina.
Uh, so, and if people are in WordPress,
I'm sure I'll pop up
because I'm sure we have mutual, you know,
followers and friends and all that.
And, uh, email it's,
you could do Raquel at
wonderlandcurious.com.
And, um,
I'm on almost every WordPress
Slack instance and I am at
Raquel every single one of them.
So it's pretty easy.
Yeah.
That seems legit.
All right.
Well, thanks again for coming on.
Thanks for everyone tuning
into this episode and we'll
see you on the internet.